Why Are People In The Bay Area So Soft? (San Jose: most dangerous, store)
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- Large community of Dominicans?
- Same for Columbians?
- Jamaicans? - Africans?
- Puerto Ricans?
- Russians?
- Arabs?
- Brazillians?
- Peruvians?
- other "ethnic" whites? (large identifiable, intact, communities of italians, greeks, polish, jews etc)
The list goes on and on. If the BA does'nt really have those groups well represented but NY does, how can you claim the Bay Area is more diverse? And NY still has way more blacks even when it has higher housing prices. How is that possible? Whats the BA excuse for that?
New York is well represented with all of those groups. They have thriving communities. They have a more broadly represented middle class (as opposed to white and asian yuppies that typifies SF and SJ). SF (and the greater bay area) DOES NOT have that same kind of broad representation, period. There is no argument. Why are you arguing a point you don't have?
Its mostly asians (including indians), mexicans, a smattering of blacks, whites (the non-ethnic, anglo variety) and a smattering of the occasional "exotic" ethnicity. That's it. Even LA is more diverse than that.
Yup.. there's no shortage of Ethiopians and there's quite a few Nigerians (myself included) and Eritreans. Fremont has the largest Afghan community by percentage in the country and Oakland/San Jose have a lot of Iranians.
And your argument is as faulty as they come. You talk about SF and SJ's lack of a "broadly represented middle class" but then choose to forget Oakland or the east bay in general exists. How diverse do you think the tiny middle class in Manhattan is? How diverse is Long Island? The only very diverse boroughs with a large middle class in NYC are Brooklyn and Queens, which is not particularly different than the Bay Area (Alameda and Contra Costa County). And do Asians suddenly not count when it comes to ethnic representation, or do you think all asians are the same?
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Vietnamese
Samoan
Tongan
Filipino
Indian
And the "all of the latinos in California are Mexican" stereotype is just that... a stereotype. At my 90% latino school in Redwood City - a city known for its large Michoacan Mexican population - there were El Salvadoreans, Nicaraguans, Guatemalans, etc. San Francisco has a large Nicaraguan community and Richmond has a large El Salvadorean community.
And are you seriously trying to say there are no ethnic white groups in the Bay? The difference is that most of the white population in California are descendants of East Coasters who moved to the west coast (ie they were already Americanized). There are no true European enclaves here outside of SF because there wasn't a lot of immigration from Europe... that's where Asia came in.
If you want to pick and choose which ethnic groups are more "valuable" than others, then you should realize that the exact same can be done to New York. Where is the large community of Tongans? Samoans? Vietnamese? And even beyond that, the Bay Area is more racially diverse which means you're more likely to actually run into the ethnic diversity on a daily basis. If Anytown USA had a population from every single latin American country but there were only 200 latinos and 10,000 whites, it doesn't really mean much. Your argument would only work if the Bay Area had no real ethnic diversity, which is so patently ridiculous that I have no idea why you're actually using it.
- Large community of Dominicans?
- Same for Columbians?
- Jamaicans?
- Africans?
- Puerto Ricans?
- Russians?
- Arabs?
- Brazillians?
- Peruvians?
- other "ethnic" whites? (large identifiable, intact, communities of italians, greeks, polish, jews etc)
This is common of the sophomoric responses when diversity between the Bay and NY is brought into question.
Opinions aside:
We know the Bay Area has a higher proportion of foreign language speakers than NY, we know that the Bay Area has a higher proportion of foreign born residents than NY, we know that the Bay Area has greater racial diversity than NY and we know that the Bay Area's diversity is also more spread out throughout the entire region than NY.
That is all substantiated by the US Census Bureau.
The vast majority of minorities and ethnic groups in the 21Million+ New York Area live in New York City. On the flip side, about two-thirds of racial and ethnic minorities in the Bay Area live outside the cities of San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose.
Islands of diversity amongst a sea of WASPs might be an East Coast thing I guess but out here, we have entire suburban corridors of diversity from the heart of the city all the way out to far flung exurbia.
This is common of the sophomoric responses when diversity between the Bay and NY is brought into question.
Opinions aside:
We know the Bay Area has a higher proportion of foreign language speakers than NY, we know that the Bay Area has a higher proportion of foreign born residents than NY, we know that the Bay Area has greater racial diversity than NY and we know that the Bay Area's diversity is also more spread out throughout the entire region than NY.
That is all substantiated by the US Census Bureau.
The vast majority of minorities and ethnic groups in the 21Million+ New York Area live in New York City. On the flip side, about two-thirds of racial and ethnic minorities in the Bay Area live outside the cities of San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose.
Islands of diversity amongst a sea of WASPs might be an East Coast thing I guess but out here, we have entire suburban corridors of diversity from the heart of the city all the way out to far flung exurbia.
That is not really the case in NY.
Are you sure your information is accurate? My understanding was that the 2010 census put New York City as the most diverse city in America, with Los Angeles as second. Not only that, Brooklyn and Queens are in the running for the most diverse counties in the county, and possibly the world. It's also tops in the diversity scale, where two people chosen randomly from the city are most likely to be different ethnic backgrounds.
SF is fairly diverse, but it doesn't really compare. SF has a large number of certain minority groups, but they're not as broadly distributed as in NYC. For example, a huge percentage of the Asian population in SF is Chinese but because of that there aren't as many Koreans and other Asian groups. NYC has a smaller (but still significant) Chinese population, but it also has a larger Korean presence as well (and a real Koreatown to go with it).
Someone above mentioned the numerous groups of Asians in SF. Good point, but NYC has all those groups represented as well so the point is moot. New York City alone, according to the 2010 Census, has now become home to more than one million Asian Americans, greater than the combined totals of San Francisco and Los Angeles.
A good figure to go by is that NYC is the most linguistically diverse city in the world.
NYC also has stronger Jewish, Greek, Russian, and other ethnic groups represented that you don't see as much of in SF. Moreover, SF itself doesn't have as broadly distributed socioeconomic diversity that NYC has.
Bottom line...someone in NYC has a much higher likelihood of interacting with a more culturally diverse group of people on a daily basis, whether it be diversity in ethnicity, socioeconomic status, or religious affiliation. Add to this that the fact that a greater percentage of New Yorkers use public transportation than SF so interaction actually happens everyday. Would someone question that more middle class and upper middle class people in NYC exclusively use public transit over the middle and upper middle class of SF? I doubt it.
Other people have expanded this argument to include the entire Bay Area vs. the NY Metro. That would include North Jersey, which in itself is one of the most ethnically and religiously diverse regions in the country (which many people in the west coast don't know).
Are you sure your information is accurate? My understanding was that the 2010 census put New York City as the most diverse city in America, with Los Angeles as second. Not only that, Brooklyn and Queens are in the running for the most diverse counties in the county, and possibly the world. It's also tops in the diversity scale, where two people chosen randomly from the city are most likely to be different ethnic backgrounds.
SF is fairly diverse, but it doesn't really compare. SF has a large number of certain minority groups, but they're not as broadly distributed as in NYC. For example, a huge percentage of the Asian population in SF is Chinese but because of that there aren't as many Koreans and other Asian groups. NYC has a smaller (but still significant) Chinese population, but it also has a larger Korean presence as well (and a real Koreatown to go with it).
Someone above mentioned the numerous groups of Asians in SF. Good point, but NYC has all those groups represented as well so the point is moot. A good figure to go by is that NYC is the most linguistically diverse city in the world.
NYC also has stronger Jewish, Greek, Russian, and other ethnic groups represented that you don't see as much of in SF. Moreover, SF itself doesn't have as broadly distributed socioeconomic diversity that NYC has.
Bottom line...someone in NYC has a much higher likelihood of interacting with a more culturally diverse group of people on a daily basis, whether it be diversity in ethnicity, socioeconomic status, or religious affiliation. Add to this that the fact that a greater percentage of New Yorkers use public transportation than SF so interaction actually happens everyday. Would someone question that more middle class and upper middle class people in NYC exclusively use public transit over the middle and upper middle class of SF? I doubt it.
Other people have expanded this argument to include the entire Bay Area vs. the NY Metro. That would include North Jersey, which in itself is one of the most ethnically and religiously diverse regions in the country (which many people in the west coast don't know).
Are you sure your information is accurate? My understanding was that the 2010 census put New York City as the most diverse city in America, with Los Angeles as second. Not only that, Brooklyn and Queens are in the running for the most diverse counties in the county, and possibly the world. It's also tops in the diversity scale, where two people chosen randomly from the city are most likely to be different ethnic backgrounds.
SF is fairly diverse, but it doesn't really compare. SF has a large number of certain minority groups, but they're not as broadly distributed as in NYC. For example, a huge percentage of the Asian population in SF is Chinese but because of that there aren't as many Koreans and other Asian groups. NYC has a smaller (but still significant) Chinese population, but it also has a larger Korean presence as well (and a real Koreatown to go with it).
Someone above mentioned the numerous groups of Asians in SF. Good point, but NYC has all those groups represented as well so the point is moot. New York City alone, according to the 2010 Census, has now become home to more than one million Asian Americans, greater than the combined totals of San Francisco and Los Angeles.
A good figure to go by is that NYC is the most linguistically diverse city in the world.
NYC also has stronger Jewish, Greek, Russian, and other ethnic groups represented that you don't see as much of in SF. Moreover, SF itself doesn't have as broadly distributed socioeconomic diversity that NYC has.
Bottom line...someone in NYC has a much higher likelihood of interacting with a more culturally diverse group of people on a daily basis, whether it be diversity in ethnicity, socioeconomic status, or religious affiliation. Add to this that the fact that a greater percentage of New Yorkers use public transportation than SF so interaction actually happens everyday. Would someone question that more middle class and upper middle class people in NYC exclusively use public transit over the middle and upper middle class of SF? I doubt it.
Other people have expanded this argument to include the entire Bay Area vs. the NY Metro. That would include North Jersey, which in itself is one of the most ethnically and religiously diverse regions in the country (which many people in the west coast don't know).
Yes, New York City is more diverse than the City of San Francisco.
But the Bay Area takes diversity to a level that the NY Metro has not yet achieved.
By "Bay Area" you mean maybe a few cities (mostly in the east bay) and not approaching the scale of NYC. Stop being dishonest and just call it like it is.
By "Bay Area" you mean maybe a few cities (mostly in the east bay) and not approaching the scale of NYC. Stop being dishonest and just call it like it is.
You don't have to lie to kick it.
He's not lying at all... show me a county in New York State outside of NYC that comes remotely close to matching San Mateo, Santa Clara, Alameda or Contra Costa County in diversity; none of them have a racial majority. Not even Hudsen County in NJ can say that. While San Mateo County and Santa Clara County lack a significant black population, they have pluralities in Asians, Whites and Latinos. I'll be the first to say that the black representation in the Bay Area outside of the East Bay is underwhelming though. I talked about that in my response to your question about black-asian relations in the Bay Area.
By "Bay Area" you mean maybe a few cities (mostly in the east bay)
The problem with coming at me sideways when it comes to this topic is that there are years of posts, right here on C-D that just shut you down.
*Yawns*
The NY CSAs diversity outside of NYC is not as impressive as the Bay Area without its major cities.
NY CSA 47.3% of all foreign born residents live outside of NYC
Racially speaking: 48.8% of all Hispancs(of all races) live outside of NYC 47.7% of all Asians live outside of NYC 43.7% of all Blacks live outside of NYC
All major non-white groups have their majorities in NYC proper and the majority of immigrants live in NYC Proper.
On the other hand:
Bay Area CSA 66.0% of all foreign born residents live outside of San Jose, San Francisco and Oakland.
Racially speaking: 70.0% of all Hispanics live outside of SJ, SF and Oakland 62.4% of all Asians live outside of SJ, SF and Oakland 61.2% of Blacks live outside of SJ, SF and Oakland
All major non-white groups have their majorities outside of SF, SJ and Oakland and two-thirds of Bay Area immigrants do not live in either SF, SJ or Oakland.
Also... 20 Most Diverse Counties in the US, 2000 Claritas 1 Queens, NY 2 Alameda, CA(Oakland) 3 Kings, NY(Brooklyn)
4 Robeson, NC
5 Fort Bend, TX(Suburban Houston) 6 Hudson, NJ 7 New York, NY(Manhattan)
8 Harris, TX
9 Los Angeles, CA
10 Dallas, TX 11 San Francisco, CA 12 Solano, CA 13 Santa Clara, CA
14 Cook, IL 15 Essex, NJ(Newark)
16 San Joaquin, CA 17 Bronx, NY 18 San Mateo, CA
19 San Bernardino, CA
20 Fresno, CA
Mind you, the Bay Area only has 11 counties in its CSA while NY has 27.
The Bay Area also has a higher percentage of foreign born residents as well.
Foreign Born Residents, 2008
New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA 5,774,910...26.0% of the total population
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA 2,159,194...29.3% of the total population
Also, in 2000, fairus.org put together a stat called "Immigrant Stock"...meaning the total population of Immigrants and their US-born Children.
Immigrant Stock, 2000
New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island 8,451,000...41.4% of the total population
San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose 3,390,000...47.7% of the total population.
Quote:
You don't have to lie to kick it.
Yes, but I don't speak stupid so that might impede our ability to kick it.
He's not lying at all... show me a county in New York State outside of NYC that comes remotely close to matching San Mateo, Santa Clara, Alameda or Contra Costa County in diversity; none of them have a racial majority. Not even Hudsen County in NJ can say that. While San Mateo County and Santa Clara County lack a significant black population, they have pluralities in Asians, Whites and Latinos. I'll be the first to say that the black representation in the Bay Area outside of the East Bay is underwhelming though. I talked about that in my response to your question about black-asian relations in the Bay Area.
Considering that NYC alone is 5 counties, that's akin to saying "show me a county in the Bay Area remotely matching Hudson County (NJ) not counting those 5 Bay Area counties you mentioned."
Additionally, when you're using the Bay Area as comparison...it makes more sense to use the NYC Metro Area rather than New York State. That means you're including North Jersey. Hudson, Union, Middlesex and Essex counties in New Jersey are all in the same ballpark as Contra Costa.
To claim that "not even Hudson County in NJ can say that" in terms of remotely matching "San Mateo, Santa Clara, Alameda or Contra Costa County in diversity", it's obvious that the latest figures haven't been looked at. Hudson County scores higher in the diversity index than ALL of those counties you mentioned with the exception of Alameda (and it's very close). Essex County (NJ) also scores higher than Contra Costa County. Moreover, there are several counties in NJ that are in the same ballpark as Essex County.
Also, the 2000 census is good for getting a general idea whether an idea is diverse but if you're trying to compare 2 metro regions that are both diverse, I would stick with the most recent numbers from 2010. Demographics CAN and HAVE signficantly changed in even one decade - especially in these 2 regions. Another factor is that the level of personal interaction an individual has with diverse groups of people is probably a lot higher in the NY Metro than the Bay Area simply because population is more dense and public transportation is more widely used. The diversity numbers doesn't mean much when you're in a car by yourself and have the option of keeping your personal space. It's been said the NYC subway is the true melting pot.
Considering that NYC alone is 5 counties, that's akin to saying "show me a county in the Bay Area remotely matching Hudson County (NJ) not counting those 5 Bay Area counties you mentioned."
Additionally, when you're using the Bay Area as comparison...it makes more sense to use the NYC Metro Area rather than New York State. That means you're including North Jersey. Hudson, Union, Middlesex and Essex counties in New Jersey and Westchester County in New York state are all in the same ballpark as Contra Costa.
To claim that "not even Hudson County in NJ can say that" in terms of remotely matching "San Mateo, Santa Clara, Alameda or Contra Costa County in diversity", it's obvious that you're going by assumptions AND while you're familiar with the Bay Area...you don't really know the NY metro. Hudson County scores higher in the diversity index than ALL of those counties you mentioned with the exception of Alameda (and it's very close). Essex County (NJ) also scores higher than Contra Costa County. Moreover, there are several counties in NJ that are in the same ballpark with Essex County.
Also, the 2000 census is good for getting a general idea whether an idea is diverse. If you're trying to compare 2 metro regions that are both diverse, I would stick with the most recent numbers from 2010. Demographics CAN and HAVE signficantly changed in even one decade - especially in these 2 regions.
I said that not even Hudsen county can claim it doesn't have a racial majority. That had nothing to do with saying it's not in the same ballpark.
And speaking of Essex County, uh... I have no idea how it managed that seeing as its two largest groups (blacks and whites) make up more than 80% of the population while San Mateo county's two largest groups (whites and Asians) only make up 78% of the population and its next largest group (hispanics) is larger than Essex County's hispanic population. I'm not going to claim to have any idea what equation they used for determining the diversity index but that seems somewhat odd. I was wrong though about San Mateo not having a racial majority.
Last edited by Nineties Flava; 07-05-2011 at 08:11 PM..
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