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All this being said, what industry exactly brings people to SF? I know banking and finance are huge, but most of the IT business is in SV which is a good clip down the road.
It is a good clip down the road, but a surprising number of San Franciscans do exactly that. I work in tech and during my time in SF, I worked full-time at a company in South SF (about a 20 minute commute from where I lived) and later worked mostly from home as a consultant/contractor.
But then I found another job I liked at the other end of the peninsula, so moved to San Jose for a much easier commute. (Certainly not for the aesthetics or culture!) But plenty of other people do commute from SF down to Silicon Valley. I tried it for a few months but it was not for me.
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Is there something specific that people "go" to SF for?
As you said, finance/banking is big, as well as other "financial district" types of jobs - lawyers and insurance people and such. Biotech is a nontrivial employer both in the city and in South SF. There's still a bit of web riff-raff although most of that cleared out after the dot-com bubble burst. A rather shocking number of people are government employees. The universities and hospitals are also pretty big employers. And then there's the usual "underclass" of poor people and retail workers who don't mind living in roommate situations.
Don't forget there's also a large population living in rent-controlled apartments or who bought in the 1990s or earlier before real estate went insane, and thus can afford to stay in the city despite having modest jobs (e.g. grocery store worker), which would be impossible for someone moving there today except via the aforesaid roommate situation.
Yeah I really liked the theme park analogy. But once you've ridden all the rides, there's not much left to do.
Now if you have a great career or family that keeps you in SF, then it is a really nice place to live. But maybe you're like me and trying to find out where the BEST place is to have a specific career.
All this being said, what industry exactly brings people to SF? I know banking and finance are huge, but most of the IT business is in SV which is a good clip down the road.
Is there something specific that people "go" to SF for?
The diaspora from the crash of the Multimedia Gulch is still out there plugging away in SF. Digital media, tech... Emeryville or East Bay would be a good choice for you if not for your commuting and school concerns.
I hate it when people dismiss L.A.'s arts and literary cultures, if only by the token that nobody who really cares about arts and lit would make dismissals of any scene anyway to serve vague impressions. Arts exist in L.A., and in vibrancy and force, and not just as an adjunct of the film industry, though works often, inevitably, reference the juxtaposition.
So I give you this simple suggestion. There's a downtown open studios event on May 2 in Los Angeles. Plan a visit then, and take the opportunity to talk to people here and there regarding your situation, needs, wants. I'm sure they'll be pretty frank about the difficulties and advantages, and will maybe offer better specifics.
I think Pasadena or South Pasadena might just be a good fit. The Gold Line will take you downtown and Pasadena itself has much to offer, if only for the location of the Art Center College of Design. Top rated for visual arts, especially in the field of industrial design.
Still, continue exploring where you are. San Mateo County does strike me as it does you now, but you may discover a community for yourself. Who knows?
I don't understand why people always call San Francisco a "small" city. Sure, it's small compared to LA, Chicago, or NYC, but if you look at it on its own, it's still a pretty big place. If SF is small, than Washington DC, Seattle, and Boston must be miniscule since SF's population has each of those places beat by hundreds of thousands. Also, let's not forget that Oakland and Berkeley have quite a lot to offer just across the Bay. If LA gets to claim Santa Monica, Pasadena, and Long Beach, then Oakland and Berkeley should be considered parts of SF as well.
One thing about L.A. that should be kept in mind is a lot of people come here to be "famous". The film and media industry sort of permeates into everything here, and that includes the arts too. The glitter of Hollywood turns many people into self-important divas, who think you are just a means to an end on the way to their superstardom. L.A., as big as it is, is still an industry town and there is a lot of stuff here that wouldn't make you feel all that good about yourself or your fellow man.
"Hollywood" isn't so much a city as a mentality that a large percentage of LA residents suffer from. And it's as bad as you would think in all the parodies you've seen, people taking themselves, their children's future stardom, their pet's future stardom, their own crazy ideas, way too seriously.
But, on the other hand, if you know how to spot it, you can be good at avoiding those types in the first place. :P
And here's another awesome documentary from the late 60s called Mondo Hollywood, very worth your time. This actually makes one want to live out here (or the "out here" of the peace/love era).
I lived in both for a number of years (SF city itself for 4 years, LA for 2 years where I am now).
I know where you're coming from. I worked a corporate job up in SF, but have always been actively involved in all things artistic my whole life (musician, actor, producer, writer, art/design, and worked semi-professionally in some of these at one time or another) -- and in my view LA has a *lot* more of this.
There is just a larger community of musicians, filmmakers, photographers, visual artists, etc. here in LA -- both amateur and professional all the way up to the highest level. The Bay Area is tiny in comparison.
I always found SF/Bay Area to be a far more amazing city to *visit* than to live, whereas I found LA to be the opposite (not the most tourist/visitor friendly, but in my opinion a more dynamic city to live in for those who have some sort of artistic thing going on in their lives).
With that larger, more dynamic artistic/creative community though comes some of the "negative" things that Bay Area folks (and anyone who loves to hate LA) may tell you -- that it's a shark tank, people here hustle, competitive, flakey unless they can get something from you, etc. Which is all true. But with that "negative" energy comes a positive one too -- it's simply a place where the creative/artistic types are simply more ambitious - it may not be their full-time income, but it's not just a hobby either. And that can be a good thing too because here in LA if you want to get involved in anything artistic -- music, filmmaking, design, etc you do have to step up your game/talent/work ethic/production because even though there may be a lot of wannabes here, there's also a TON of incredibly talented folks in just about any artistic thing compared to anywhere else. And being able to pursue whatever your artistic/creative thing here can be incredibly humbling yet inspiring at the same time. Being around the incredibly inspiring talent and the real ugly realities of the 'industry' in my experience has been great because it completely de-mystifies the "magic" - which may be heartbreaking to some, but motivating for me because it pushes me to WORK at it. De-mystifying it forces me to really see it for what it is, and is the true test for whether I *love* it for its own sake, or not.
Even though I don't think of myself as anything special in what I do, I do love it here. Some people in LA may *hate* it that everyone from the Starbucks barista to the corporate lawyer moonlights as a photographer, musician, actor, writer, etc but I find it great because it's one of the few cities I've ever lived where you don't have to *explain* why you are so obsessed with this film/music/book/theater/dance/art project that you're working on outside of "the day job".
In my experience, I found the Bay Area to be a community dominated by engineers, MBAs, lawyers, and the Pottery Barn yuppie set -- nothing wrong with them as they're perfectly friendly, but certainly not the kind of people who harbor much of an artistic side beyond "consuming" it (as opposed to producing and engaging in it as an activity). And I do speak from someone who on the surface if you'd just look at my corporate/work resume I'd be your typical yuppie. There's certainly a fair share of the yuppie corporate set here in LA, but they don't dominate the overall community or culture here like they do in the Bay Area.
The Bay Area has one of the prettiest exteriors of any city in the US, but underneath it there isn't as much going on as its exterior suggests. Conversely, LA can have a pretty ugly exterior (or at least a bad reputation that precedes it), but has a lot more going on both great and bad underneath that initial industrial facade. The irony is that Bay Area residents tend to portray LA as shallow, when LA is the city where more than meets the eye.
As for living costs, LA certainly isn't cheap, but it is less expensive than the Bay Area, and there's more living options as well in my opinion.
And my opinions are based on my experiences living in SF itself. Like another poster said, you may want to give the East Bay a shot, but again if you're looking at the bigger picture, it seems like LA will have a lot more to offer overall when it comes to what you want.
Here's a great post from the LA board. It explains many of the issues that I couldn't put my finger on.
I guess that's a good rundown. I've decided the best solution is to live in both cities at once--I'm going to see how I can pull that off.
It's true, L.A. is probably better to live than visit. You make a trade-off. L.A. does have a lot of people who are in the arts and you can definitely stay active and engaged in many ways. The tradeoff is traffic, and the fact that L.A. is very run-down, dirty, and has lots of sketchy areas. Also, a lot of gangs. Maybe that number has fluctuated over time, but make no mistake there are very violent and gang-infested areas of L.A. that are really, really big. Not little neighborhoods tucked away. The $$ nice areas exist as well, obviously, are more desirable, and lived in by movie stars and media execs.
SF has the small town-yet-big city feel that you will never find in L.A. There are more people in L.A., but you can feel very isolated because it is not a "city" but a group of very large neighborhoods separated by vast distances. So while there may be literally more people, you can FEEL like there are less compared to the "in the heart of things" vibe you get in SF.
But, like you say, it could get old after a time. And, it's true, you probably have many more opportunities to get involved in the "entertainment industry" in L.A. It's an industry town after all, Hooray for Hollywood.
But the Sunny SoCal you see in the movies and T.V. doesn't necessarily exist. You only see the $$$ exclusive areas on TV. You don't see the dirt, the grime, the run-down vibe much of the "city" has. It's not very photogenic after-all.
I guess S.F. is the reverse of that. The city in general is beautiful, WYSIWYG.... but you're sensing there's not much "pulse" underneath. That "pulse" is of course the fact that L.A. is full of middle and lower-income people who are living their real, everyday, frequently monotonous lives out here, with all that entails for a community. And I'll probably get flamed for this, but we have a ton of illegal immigrants out here. Much of L.A. is turning into a little Mexico Jr, and what you experience is the opposite of gentrification. For example my father grew up in Van Nuys, back in the 50s. It was an industry town, many movie stars and industry folks lived there, sort of like a 90210 thing, but more middle class... you do not want to go there now. It is I believe the Porn Capital of the world, and I lived there for a short time and it is just like a Tijuana now, dangerous, and the opposite of gentrified. I understand that people want to come to this country for a better life, but the fact is that they bring their cultural attitudes with them and you just have to experience it to see what it is like. Flame away, everyone.
Of course the nice places don't have too much of that but they are becoming pockets of nice amongst what the L.A. of old used to be--the movie stars and the sun. It's just not like that, unless you have the $$ to afford what used to be what everyone could experience. But all these cultures and stress combining together definitely creates a "pulse" that you can feel. It's just not the big city, metropolitan pulse you feel somewhere in S.F. It's more of a walking on a tightrope kind of buzz that many find exciting---sort of a post-apoclyptic world where you realize you are living in what used to be a very cool, safe, glamorous town but is now decaying and dying and being replaced by struggle.
Not to mention our economy is absolutely disastrous right now. L.A. is becoming the new Detroit. Business are fleeing southern california at an alarming rate--our liberal policies is taking what used to be the california dream and moving it eastward, AZ, NV, TX, beyond... I've grown up in it and it's just in my blood. But once I move away I may of course over time miss those very things!
So I've done my best to be at least slightly impartial and show the good and bad about L.A. I've decided I'm going to explore some of the places I had written off a long time ago as well just to make sure I'm not too much on the "L.A. Sucks" camp--my opinions come from years and years of not only me living here, but my dad and family having lived here for generations as well. I love the L.A. of the glamorous past, but that is not what is there, now.
In the meantime, I've found a workable solution: attain unlimited wealth and frequent flights between No and So Cal. so you can have best of both worlds.
Good Luck!
Last edited by rjca; 03-22-2010 at 04:58 PM..
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