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Old 11-20-2013, 12:48 PM
 
339 posts, read 515,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04kL4nD View Post
What are you defining DTO as? Does it exclude JLS, Chinatown, parts of Lake Merritt, and/or Uptown? I'm curious where these numbers are coming from.
An area bordered by Grand Ave., 980, 880 and Alice St. It includes the entire CBD, most of Uptown and part of Chinatown. It doesn't include Lakeside or JLS, which have an average median income of $46k and $51k, respectively.

They're also 2009 numbers, but most of the luxury buildings were build by then, I believe.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,852,900 times
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The income numbers are a little misleading. Lots of senior / assisted living / etc housing. There isn't a lot of housing in DTO open to "regular" people. Besides all of the super expensive apartments. Needs more middle income housing.


I am on my phone, please forgive the typos.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:28 PM
 
339 posts, read 515,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
The income numbers are a little misleading. Lots of senior / assisted living / etc housing. There isn't a lot of housing in DTO open to "regular" people. Besides all of the super expensive apartments. Needs more middle income housing.
Right, but what does that mean? How do you "build" middle-income housing? Pricing and development are based on demand. The land in DTO is expensive, so the only cost-effective way to build is to target people with money. Find me an urban center in the US that is somehow building middle-income housing? Penn Quarter in DC? Nope. Financial District in Manhattan? Nope. Pearl District in Portland? Nope. SOMA in SF? Nope. Center City in Philly? Nope. Please explain how this can be done?
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:42 PM
 
343 posts, read 444,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CirclingLogan View Post
Right, but what does that mean? How do you "build" middle-income housing? Pricing and development are based on demand. The land in DTO is expensive, so the only cost-effective way to build is to target people with money. Find me an urban center in the US that is somehow building middle-income housing? Penn Quarter in DC? Nope. Financial District in Manhattan? Nope. Pearl District in Portland? Nope. SOMA in SF? Nope. Center City in Philly? Nope. Please explain how this can be done?
Good questions. Best place to start would be making it easier to build more market rate housing. That would keep downward pressure on rents and provide more city revenue to fund programs like below-market rate housing for low income residents
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Old 11-20-2013, 04:04 PM
 
339 posts, read 515,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obamadon1 View Post
Good questions. Best place to start would be making it easier to build more market rate housing. That would keep downward pressure on rents and provide more city revenue to fund programs like below-market rate housing for low income residents
Like it or not, with the way the Bay Area rental market is, any new market rate housing in DTO is likely going to commuters w/ jobs in SF, and w/ more nice housing and affluent residents, more boutiques, bars and restaurants will open making it even more desirable and become a replacement neighborhood for people who would otherwise choose Hayes Valley, Nob Hill, etc. There's not going to be downward pressure on prices unless 10s of thousands of units are constructed.
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Old 11-20-2013, 04:43 PM
 
Location: oakland / berkeley
507 posts, read 916,713 times
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Even people with high income jobs in SF need to live somewhere.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:01 PM
 
343 posts, read 444,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CirclingLogan View Post
Like it or not, with the way the Bay Area rental market is, any new market rate housing in DTO is likely going to commuters w/ jobs in SF, and w/ more nice housing and affluent residents, more boutiques, bars and restaurants will open making it even more desirable and become a replacement neighborhood for people who would otherwise choose Hayes Valley, Nob Hill, etc. There's not going to be downward pressure on prices unless 10s of thousands of units are constructed.
Well in an ideal world where we're rid of CEQA, parking minimums, height maximums, retail mandates and so on, perhaps we could get development on that scale.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:13 PM
 
343 posts, read 444,694 times
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Oakland could have resisted housing development downtown years ago - that would have kept rents in old, desolate buildings in abandoned neighborhoods low. Oakland could lay off more police officers so maybe we get more crime downtown. That would put downward pressure on rents. It's hard to see other pathways that lead to lower rents. Rents have been artificially low in Oakland for years, thanks to crime and lack of employment opportunities in the city.
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Old 11-20-2013, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,852,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CirclingLogan View Post
Right, but what does that mean? How do you "build" middle-income housing? Pricing and development are based on demand. The land in DTO is expensive, so the only cost-effective way to build is to target people with money. Find me an urban center in the US that is somehow building middle-income housing? Penn Quarter in DC? Nope. Financial District in Manhattan? Nope. Pearl District in Portland? Nope. SOMA in SF? Nope. Center City in Philly? Nope. Please explain how this can be done?
I'd call middle income housing stuff that rents for 1200-2000. Reducing parking minimums would make. A huge difference. And parking minimums are unnecessary in DTO. People who choose to love their drive less.


I am on my phone, please forgive the typos.
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,653 posts, read 67,472,171 times
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Citywise: New developer in place for Coliseum City in Oakland - ContraCostaTimes.com
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