SF vs NYC - please help (San Francisco, Berkeley: home, versus, nightlife)

[tkindred]

Originally Posted by NorthernCalifornia

The population of metro NYC is 18 million, not 22. SF Bay Area has 7 milllion. The biggest difference between SF and Manhattan is that you can probably afford to live in SF haha.

There is much much more going on in New York City than San Francisco. There are many differences that are easy to notice. No comparison. And you have the other East Coast cities feeding into it like Philadelphia which is one of the largest metro areas in the U.S. by itself. Also, New York is THE gateway into the United States from Europe and other continents. Every major city on Earth is connected to NYC via air. It is an International city. No question.

Why do people in SF need to feel superior or equal to bigger cities that offer more? SF has its own character with its beautiful landscape. New York doesn't have that. Why is it so difficult for people here to accept they are different.

[liberal elite]

Originally Posted by NorthernCalifornia

The population of metro NYC is 18 million, not 22. SF Bay Area has 7 milllion. The biggest difference between SF and Manhattan is that you can probably afford to live in SF haha.

NYC CSA has 22,000,000 people.

[popalnet]

Originally Posted by NorthernCalifornia

The population of metro NYC is 18 million, not 22. SF Bay Area has 7 milllion. The biggest difference between SF and Manhattan is that you can probably afford to live in SF haha.

According to the census bureau, as of 2006 the CSA metro population of NYC was almost 22 million. SF is the 6th largest metro in the nation. NYC is the largest followed by LA, Chicago, DC, and Boston: http://www.city-data.com/forum/gener...-areas-us.html

[NorthernCalifornia]

Originally Posted by tkindred

There is much much more going on in New York City than San Francisco. There are many differences that are easy to notice. No comparison. And you have the other East Coast cities feeding into it like Philadelphia which is one of the largest metro areas in the U.S. by itself. Also, New York is THE gateway into the United States from Europe and other continents. Every major city on Earth is connected to NYC via air. It is an International city. No question.

Why do people in SF need to feel superior or equal to bigger cities that offer more? SF has its own character with its beautiful landscape. New York doesn't have that. Why is it so difficult for people here to accept they are different.

hmm, i think you missed my point. i agree 100% that SF and NYC really are nothing alike.

[NorthernCalifornia]

Originally Posted by popalnet

According to the census bureau, as of 2006 the CSA metro population of NYC was almost 22 million. SF is the 6th largest metro in the nation. NYC is the largest followed by LA, Chicago, DC, and Boston: http://www.city-data.com/forum/gener...-areas-us.html

thanks for the link but those boundaries are ridiculous. it's not a pissing match for me, I was just trying to state accurate population numbers. the sf bay for example has 7 million people but it's hard to get around the area (giant body of water in middle has some effect). It's much easier to get around nyc metro area, for example. this is why you find the sf bay area is more like three dozen places all crushed together as opposed to a big, connected region like nyc is.

[popalnet]

Originally Posted by NorthernCalifornia

thanks for the link but those boundaries are ridiculous. it's not a pissing match for me, I was just trying to state accurate population numbers. the sf bay for example has 7 million people but it's hard to get around the area (giant body of water in middle has some effect). It's much easier to get around nyc metro area, for example. this is why you find the sf bay area is more like three dozen places all crushed together as opposed to a big, connected region like nyc is.

You're right. It's very notable when traveling east or west in the bay area. You can drive a few miles east on the east bay and you end up in the boonies with not much around you. While you can drive from los gatos to oakland (north and south for 40 miles) and it can take 45 minutes with some stuff to see around you. That's the bay effect - driving around the bay. Ughh, I remember those drives on I-880 - so boring, dull, ugly, and depressing.

[bsri]

First of all, the weather in the East is really tough. And commuting from any Tri-State suburb to Manhattan is horrible. Commuting in the Bay Area is also horrible. Taxes are horrible in both places. But I cannot imagine not living in NYC, Bay Area, or LA.

As far as NYC vs. SF: NYC is far more kid-friendly. We've been looking at neighborhoods in SF, Marin, and Peninsula for a couple of weeks. In SF, no kids. None on Union St. None in Pacific Heights. None to be seen in Presidio Heights. It was like London. On the Upper Eastside or Upper Westside, it's stroller city with Jamaican nannies during the day and urban mommies at night. As far as people, in NYC, you not only have people in finance (both banking and trading), you also have people working at consulates, the UN, and think-tanks setting the world agenda; you have fashion models, editors and photographers. You have two world-class papers in the NYT and WSJ published here with most of the editorial staff in Manhattan. You have the 3 major TV networks (ABC, NBC, CBS) based here with full news operations. You have major newsweeklies. On 6th Avenue, you have most of the major book publishers in America. Hearst, Time, and Conde Nast are based right here. The latenight TV shows are taped here (and some in LA.) There are tons of world-class restaurants and clubs. There are world-class museums. Many, many, corporate headquarters. And anybody other than start-ups raising money have to go through here. When you factor in all of the young people that work in finance, magazines, newspapers, fashion, art, television, book publishing, etc. setting the cultural agenda of this country, I don't see how there is a comparison. And when young people in these industries get a little older, they move to suburbs in the tri-state area (NY, NJ, CT). The affluent suburbs in the NYC area are far more diverse from a professional standpoint.

SF is basically a suburb of Silicon Valley now. On Pacific Heights and in the hottest buildings, the best units and homes are owned by people that work in Silicon Valley. There is no source of wealth from the city itself. Because of this, SF has a shallow self-identity based on irrational ideals and idiotic policies. It is not a set of ideals developed by editors, thinkers, policy-wonks, financiers, moguls, etc. like in NYC, but by aging hippies and random thinking. In addition, Market Street in SF smells like urine and the homeless are everywhere. NYC, for better or worse, has gone fascist against the homeless and is far safer. In terms of an educated populace feeding into the city, with 150 miles of NYC, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, MIT, NYU, UPenn, Brown, Princeton. 3 of them, Yale, Columbia, and Princeton are within 80 miles of the city. There are also lots more sports fans and they are much more knowledgable than in SF.

There is one culture in the Bay Area: Silicon Valley technology culture. Anyone moving to the Bay Area out of ambition is there for only this business. Not the case with NYC. So NYC has much more diverse intellectual base. Also, within 45 minutes of NYC, you can get 4-acre properties in Greenwich, CT for the price of 1-acre in Atherton/Woodside/Hillsborough. Greenwich, Bedford, and Westchester/Fairfield County around this area are far more scenic. And the seasons are brilliant, except for winter. And the summer is much more green and lush in NYC.

All that said, the cold in the East is killing me (as is the humidity). But I'm not down for jackets in the summer as in SF, so we need to keep looking. It's simple: If you like people, NYC hands down. If you like weather, nothing beats CA.

[ridestick66]

Your idea of culture is too intertwined with work and money making.

[hsw]

Originally Posted by bsri

First of all, the weather in the East is really tough. And commuting from any Tri-State suburb to Manhattan is horrible. Commuting in the Bay Area is also horrible. Taxes are horrible in both places. But I cannot imagine not living in NYC, Bay Area, or LA.

As far as NYC vs. SF: NYC is far more kid-friendly. We've been looking at neighborhoods in SF, Marin, and Peninsula for a couple of weeks. In SF, no kids. None on Union St. None in Pacific Heights. None to be seen in Presidio Heights. It was like London. On the Upper Eastside or Upper Westside, it's stroller city with Jamaican nannies during the day and urban mommies at night. As far as people, in NYC, you not only have people in finance (both banking and trading), you also have people working at consulates, the UN, and think-tanks setting the world agenda; you have fashion models, editors and photographers. You have two world-class papers in the NYT and WSJ published here with most of the editorial staff in Manhattan. You have the 3 major TV networks (ABC, NBC, CBS) based here with full news operations. You have major newsweeklies. On 6th Avenue, you have most of the major book publishers in America. Hearst, Time, and Conde Nast are based right here. The latenight TV shows are taped here (and some in LA.) There are tons of world-class restaurants and clubs. There are world-class museums. Many, many, corporate headquarters. And anybody other than start-ups raising money have to go through here. When you factor in all of the young people that work in finance, magazines, newspapers, fashion, art, television, book publishing, etc. setting the cultural agenda of this country, I don't see how there is a comparison. And when young people in these industries get a little older, they move to suburbs in the tri-state area (NY, NJ, CT). The affluent suburbs in the NYC area are far more diverse from a professional standpoint.

SF is basically a suburb of Silicon Valley now. On Pacific Heights and in the hottest buildings, the best units and homes are owned by people that work in Silicon Valley. There is no source of wealth from the city itself. Because of this, SF has a shallow self-identity based on irrational ideals and idiotic policies. It is not a set of ideals developed by editors, thinkers, policy-wonks, financiers, moguls, etc. like in NYC, but by aging hippies and random thinking. In addition, Market Street in SF smells like urine and the homeless are everywhere. NYC, for better or worse, has gone fascist against the homeless and is far safer. In terms of an educated populace feeding into the city, with 150 miles of NYC, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, MIT, NYU, UPenn, Brown, Princeton. 3 of them, Yale, Columbia, and Princeton are within 80 miles of the city. There are also lots more sports fans and they are much more knowledgable than in SF.

There is one culture in the Bay Area: Silicon Valley technology culture. Anyone moving to the Bay Area out of ambition is there for only this business. Not the case with NYC. So NYC has much more diverse intellectual base. Also, within 45 minutes of NYC, you can get 4-acre properties in Greenwich, CT for the price of 1-acre in Atherton/Woodside/Hillsborough. Greenwich, Bedford, and Westchester/Fairfield County around this area are far more scenic. And the seasons are brilliant, except for winter. And the summer is much more green and lush in NYC.

All that said, the cold in the East is killing me (as is the humidity). But I'm not down for jackets in the summer as in SF, so we need to keep looking. It's simple: If you like people, NYC hands down. If you like weather, nothing beats CA.

You raise valid points...

Agree...City of SF is a dumpy, socialist suburb of SV....

But would observe that both the Manhattan/Greenwich and SF/SV I know are fairly insular in many ways....many hedgies in each region largely socialize w/colleagues in financial industry; many attended the same ?4 univs (Wharton/Harvard/Princeton/Stanford); trained together at GS/MS/CS; live in the same few sts of elite sections of SF/NYC/Woodside/Greenwich; have wkend houses near each other; kids attend the same 2-3 schools; everyone dines at the same 2-3 power restaurants, etc etc....many socio-economic gps across the spectrum choose to live/work in their own bubbles....

Know many hedgies who started their career in NYC and migrated to SF (and now despise even having to visit NYC for business)...most who left NYC are car nuts (some of best weather/roads/topography in world are all over CA, e.g., in mtns above Woodside)....

And, despite the nr-perfect weather of SV, many weather snobs have Malibu wkend houses (another place w/amazing rds to enjoy perf cars)....and LV is nearby for nightlife....(BTW, in past 2-3 yrs, have noticed that many high-IQ financiers from NYC/Chic are often seen at their BH/Malibu wkend houses...they prob just figured out that the humidity and IL-like topography of the Hamptons sucks)

BTW, the close proximity of SV/BH/LV makes for a much cheaper NetJets bill than what the guys in NYC suffer, where any acceptable wkend weather (and grub) is a long flt away....life's too short to sit in planes for long flts, no matter how big the plane....

SF/SV has some of shortest, most civilized upscale commutes in world; either the 5-10mins PacHts drive to SF's fin dt...or the 5-10mins drive from Woodside to SandHillRd....and the drive from SF to SV if need to visit a tech co. is one of fastest, most pleasurable drives in world (even in rush hr) on 280 fwy....where one often encounters a few $150K+ cars casually blitzing btwn the regions....NYC region is US' most 3rdWorld region in terms of auto infrastruc, even btwn Greenwich and Manhattan...slow, congested, ugly fwys; trash-compactor garages in Manhattan designed to inflict dings/scrapes on one's car....and a lack of undgd pkg garages for many key Manhattan office bldgs, unlike SF's key office bldgs which have superb, well-spaced pkg for high-end cars....(even Chicago has excellent undgd garages for its high-end Loop bldgs, so hedgies casually drive from their LF/GoldCoast garage to their office pkg garage, unaffected by Chic's nasty weather)

Would argue that the concentration of IQ/innovation/capitalism in Woodside, BH/Malibu (on many wkends), Greenwich and UES of Manhattan dwarfs that of anywhere on planet...truly imposs to live anywhere else in world...

[safe_and_warm]

I have been in San Fran and New York but never live. If ever I will move, I prefer San Francisco! People there are warmer and the weather is beautiful!