"Flakiness"? A sincere discussion. (San Diego, San Francisco: environment, transplants, showing)

[Kharatos]

I was just reading the other thread where people touched on the flakiness of the people residing here in the bay area, and I felt compelled to dwell deeper into this issue because it really does present an important aspect of my social life here in the bay area.

I'm an immigrant that's been living in the east bay for the past 8 years, haven't had the chance to move out yet and likely won't have one until I finish my undergraduate degree because the UCs are just too much of a good deal for in-state residents to pass up.

I don't even know where to really begin with my frustration with the whole flakiness issue. I was brought up educated to have a sense of community social interactions, and a mentality of a push-pull relationship with friends and acquaintances, and I really enjoyed that type of a social life as I am naturally curious about others and like to interact with people.

It also doesn't help that I was instilled a sense of freedom by my parents to never be afraid to speak my mind but at the same time respect others, and keep an open mind. The end result is that I can appear very opinionated, although deep down I have a deep sense of respect for everyone and I introspect a lot. Despite having opinions, I've found that I'm more likely to try new things than most of my peers, having an opinion doesn't mean I discriminate.

I also tend to like to get to know people and then stay in touch with them, it also doesn't happen very often here because people seem very closed-up and cliquey, in everyday encounters people are often "nice" but the fact of the matter is nobody really cares about anybody else. I've also been discouraged from people because a lot of folks tend to think that there must be something you want to get from them when you're being socially open and inviting.

I've lived here for 8 years and out f 6 of those years I have not stopped trying to introspect and trying to figure out what I must be doing wrong because I thrive in active social participations and I long for it so very very much. But no matter how much I tried to find out things I do wrong, there is only so much I can change because there are some fundamental parts of my personality that make me the person I am and it's not really possible to truly change that, and I also wouldn't want to change it since those parts of me served to create some of the very best moments and memories of my life.

I've been able to find a few good friends over the years but it just seems so much harder and I just feel like that there's something missing, I can't quite pinpoint on it but it's definitely there.

This is in no way or shape a bash on the city of San Francisco and the bay area or its people and community, as I simply adore the area and the cold weather of the city is my favorite part of it all. But it just feels like that the people are so hard to reach most of the time.

I'm hoping that this will become better since I'm currently attending a community college (felt lost in high school as a fresh immigrant so I worked for a few years afterwards to put things in order before coming back to school.), my grades are very good now and I'll be at an UC by next fall, I'm certainly hoping that the people on campus will be more willing to socialize (I must point out that I dislike the term being associated with hardcore drinking that is so often utilized by college students).

I'll definitely try to move around the country/world after I graduate, but for now getting a proper education is a goal that I must accomplish. In the meantime, however, I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that feels similar frustrations and perhaps have some advice on how best to approach it?

[WannaBNorCal]

Hey there!

Good luck to you with school.
Someone may be able to help you out more here, considering I only spent a year in SF, but Marin County, especially Mill Valley, fits what you describe pretty much, imo.
What I found during that year, however, is very committed people, they stuck to their word, I think I only met maybe 3 people at most who I considered flaky.
How to approach it? Watch your back, be friendly, but don't give in, you seem like you will be great, believe that and all the best!

Hope this helps a little, new to this site, so perusing around to see all the comments about life in SF :-)

[veganwriter]

One glance and I can see the nature of your problem young man. I was born and bred in the area in which you now call home ... and every time I drive my truck back into California, I'm amazed at the fact that I stayed there so long despite how crappy the people were becoming and how racist the economic policies were (are) unfolding.

See ... you have a bad case of Bay Area Pride-itis. This disease isn't specific to the San Francisco Bay Area ... just tune into Rush Linbaugh and you can tell that the epidemic is being spread nation-wide. But the Bay Area has a specifically nasty form of it.

Pride-itis:
Symptoms include (1) feeling better than others; especially those of lower income levels or those persons or groups marginalized by race, class or sexual preference. (2) Toxic Shame (SEE: John Bradshaw) ... the great urge to put of a shield when encountering others in order to defend oneself against feelings of insecurity, guilt, or inadequacy. NOTE: This symptom is especially nasty when the person so infected is a member of one or more of the more popular sexual minorities that have invaded the Bay Area since the mid-to-late 70s. While said persons have sought to live in a "liberal" environment, their "liberalism" has failed miserably to include those who are different than themselves. Fear is at the root of this form of the malady.

Cure:
1. Read Mathew Fox, Stephen Bachelor or any of the other popular Bay Area Theologians who are instructing uptight, "better than thou" Bay Area residents on how to open their tiny hearts.

2. Repeat the montra: "Each year, Americans travel all over the world looking for people who'll love us ... yet we refuse to speak to the neighbor who lives right next door."

3. Look at the hand that is pointing the finger at those you feel better than. Notice there are three (fingers) pointing back at you.

Good luck. They say that Pride is what God hates most. You can flip me off, call me crazy ... whatever... But there are still a lot of good people in the Bay Area. But they are oddly silent as they watch all those darker folks being run out of town. Can't have it both ways ... be a loving, healthy community while the Nazis are burning folks. Oh well ... it's a good thing you're thinking about leaving ... all those new million dollar condos springing up in Oakland are being build on one of the shakiest earthquake faultlines on the planet. ()

Maybe Jack Kornfield is right ... none of us escapes his/her Karma.

[Kharatos]

Originally Posted by veganwriter

One glance and I can see the nature of your problem young man. I was born and bred in the area in which you now call home ... and every time I drive my truck back into California, I'm amazed at the fact that I stayed there so long despite how crappy the people were becoming and how racist the economic policies were (are) unfolding.

See ... you have a bad case of Bay Area Pride-itis. This disease isn't specific to the San Francisco Bay Area ... just tune into Rush Linbaugh and you can tell that the epidemic is being spread nation-wide. But the Bay Area has a specifically nasty form of it.

Pride-itis:
Symptoms include (1) feeling better than others; especially those of lower income levels or those persons or groups marginalized by race, class or sexual preference. (2) Toxic Shame (SEE: John Bradshaw) ... the great urge to put of a shield when encountering others in order to defend oneself against feelings of insecurity, guilt, or inadequacy. NOTE: This symptom is especially nasty when the person so infected is a member of one or more of the more popular sexual minorities that have invaded the Bay Area since the mid-to-late 70s. While said persons have sought to live in a "liberal" environment, their "liberalism" has failed miserably to include those who are different than themselves. Fear is at the root of this form of the malady.

Cure:
1. Read Mathew Fox, Stephen Bachelor or any of the other popular Bay Area Theologians who are instructing uptight, "better than thou" Bay Area residents on how to open their tiny hearts.

2. Repeat the montra: "Each year, Americans travel all over the world looking for people who'll love us ... yet we refuse to speak to the neighbor who lives right next door."

3. Look at the hand that is pointing the finger at those you feel better than. Notice there are three (fingers) pointing back at you.

Good luck. They say that Pride is what God hates most. You can flip me off, call me crazy ... whatever... But there are still a lot of good people in the Bay Area. But they are oddly silent as they watch all those darker folks being run out of town. Can't have it both ways ... be a loving, healthy community while the Nazis are burning folks. Oh well ... it's a good thing you're thinking about leaving ... all those new million dollar condos springing up in Oakland are being build on one of the shakiest earthquake faultlines on the planet. ()

Maybe Jack Kornfield is right ... none of us escapes his/her Karma.

I don't understand everything in your post but I see the point of it all. I don't have much to say but I don't think you're crazy, I'm gonna save your post. I don't know how to fix everything yet, but I think I'll be okay. Thank you.

[veganwriter]

ach! You're young and the humbleness of your reply makes me feel guilty. There's only so much one generation can tell the next ... yet ... we seem to all be constantly re-creating the same damn wheel.

My advice ... for what its worth ... find a number of spiritually wise people. (That's where today's battles are being fought ... greed and pride ... hatred ... it's all old world spiritual stuff ...) and that's where the battles are won. In our souls ... our hearts.

But DON'T bow to any idols ... but learn from their philosophy
If you pray (strongly advised) remember, your prayers will be answered ... but often in very weird ways... at first they'll look "weird" ... then they'll look ... brilliant!

DON'T be afraid!
Don't put anything higher than love
Yet, don't make an idol to love
I believe there is a supreme God ... and many, many lesser ones.

If you like to study, read the classics (too)
The good stuff is in the metaphores ... the allegories ... the layers.

In the end, remember its not Rocket Science.
Only your ego will make it difficult. (THAT'S the understatement of the world!)

Start learning integrity and character ... and when you do, betray no one, especially yourself! Have some lines that you won't cross.

AVOID getting drunk and using drugs. Those lines you've just defined WILL be crossed if you do.

words of wisdom from an old ex-drunken fool.

Good luck ... oh yeah ... FOLLOW YOUR FIRST DREAMS ... and always remember ... it comes through you ... it's not YOU. Create beauty if you can ... in works and deeds ... and do them for the Glory of God.

What is "God"?

'Tis the love you seek my young friend

[whoIam]

Kharatos,
I was really curious to read this thread since I have also experienced people in CA flaking out without batting an eye. That does not include showing up little late (that is being generous) but completely not coming through for arrangements that they supposedly scheduled-- without any warning whatsoever. Where I grew up, treating others' interest and time with so little regard is enough to break off a friendship. I didn't make a big issue of it, though I felt like I should tell them what I thought about that. I know that it would have just come across as being "uncool" or "uptight". When I visited the east coast, my friends would make several calls to check on where I was and update me on where they were, etc. as our meeting time approached. Normally, I might think that was overkill, but lately those kind of gestures are almost heartwarming to me. That makes me wonder if it has anything to do with being a transplant (although 8 years is a long time). Maybe they are not buying into the relationship as being a long-term one. After a time, it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Wish I could say more. No one is accusing anyone, but how to deal?

[Radical347]

Are people in SF really that bad? I'm nervous now, because I've seen a few threads about this and I cannot stand flaky people.

I am moving up to SF in January from San Diego. San Diego is notorious for flakes. Locals or transplants, it's all the same -- it seems it's a requirement for living here! It's just like whoIam said -- they make plans and leave you waiting without so much as batting an eye. They won't call you, they won't even answer when you call them wondering where you are. And they respond with no shame when you see them later and ask about it. I realize things come up, but how hard can it be to be considerate and just give a call?

One time I tried to have a sushi night and got word from about a dozen or so people they'd show up. I went to the store in the morning, bought all the ingredients, spent the entire day making sushi and tempura -- and that evening a grand total of ONE person showed up!!! (And she, of course, was not a CA native. Go figure.)

I was hoping SF wouldn't be this way too, so it breaks my heart to read this.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by Radical347

Are people in SF really that bad? I'm nervous now, because I've seen a few threads about this and I cannot stand flaky people.

I am moving up to SF in January from San Diego. San Diego is notorious for flakes. Locals or transplants, it's all the same -- it seems it's a requirement for living here! It's just like whoIam said -- they make plans and leave you waiting without so much as batting an eye. They won't call you, they won't even answer when you call them wondering where you are. And they respond with no shame when you see them later and ask about it. I realize things come up, but how hard can it be to be considerate and just give a call?

One time I tried to have a sushi night and got word from about a dozen or so people they'd show up. I went to the store in the morning, bought all the ingredients, spent the entire day making sushi and tempura -- and that evening a grand total of ONE person showed up!!! (And she, of course, was not a CA native. Go figure.)

I was hoping SF wouldn't be this way too, so it breaks my heart to read this.

Of course there are flaky people here, just like anywhere in the world... I don't personally see a major problem with it, but some people might think otherwise. All I can say is to pick your friends carefully! I have one friend who's a total flake, but I love her anyway & just know to take that into consideration. But my other friends are totally reliable, and even the flaky one is there when it really counts.

[whoIam]

Originally Posted by Radical347

Are people in SF really that bad? I'm nervous now, because I've seen a few threads about this and I cannot stand flaky people.

Radical, I apologize but I probably shouldn't have posted here. I was browsing the SF forum, saw this thread and the other one and was reminded of my own experience in CA (a little in the Bay area, but particularly in southern CA). I guess I saw it as more of a general discussion, but then it would make more sense if it were on the general CA forum. Anyway, for me LA->SF would be an improvement, at least in terms of the flake factor. So, it isn't really bad in comparison.

[wealthtrader]

If you think SF is bad, try LA! lol... the capital of cooler than thou... the capital of my bug eyed shades are more expensive than thou's