University of San Francisco

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by jcp123

I don't know much about USF itself or their academics, so I won't comment on that.

What I can say is that a degree from there might be burdened with the stereotypical San Frincisco liberalism, which may hurt its value in certain parts of the country. Again, I can't comment on whether or not it IS a liberally biased education, it's just the perception that many may have when they see San Francisco on your degree.

1. Colleges in general are known to lean way left. Being in SF specifically won't matter so much, relatively.

2. USF is a Jesuit institution. Although my Jesuit high school promoted liberal attitudes, I think most outsiders would assume it's the opposite just by being associated with Christianity. That pretty much negates any SF stereotypes.

[angelbug]

Originally Posted by City Boy

As a recent graduate. I can tell you that you're way off base. Most USF students are top of the class Private school rich kids. There are ambassadors kids who go there, for a reason. The professors are all outstanding and the quality of education is better than any school around here.

The UC's are overcrowded and have 400 people in some classes. Who can learn that way? The largest class I had at USF had 40 students in it. The professors actually know who you are. You're giving out false information. To recommend SF State over USF is absurd and ridiculous. Do you work for them?

Well...look at any recent edition of California Colleges, check out the range of SAT scores and GPAs for the schools, and USF is clearly not a selective school. My son is applying to colleges now, and we've combed that book looking at stats. USF admits most of the students who apply there - far more than almost any other college in the book, if not all of them. The classes aren't filled with topnotch students. There are SOME excellent students, of course, but the overall level is low. As I said, the teachers are excellent. But all the ones I knew while I worked there were very frustrated with the quality of the students. My ex wouldn't even consider letting my stepson go there, even though the tuition would have been free. Maybe his department, because it was a difficult subject area, felt it more than other departments in the school, I don't know. I just know that when we had parties at ours and other faculty members' houses, I didn't hear too many positive things about teaching there.

No, I don't work for SF State, I work for UC Davis. I've taken classes at both USF and SF State, and that's the basis for my comparison. Yes, the UCs are overcrowded and if you're in certain majors your lower division classes will be huge. Frankly I hope my kid chooses a smaller private school instead of a UC, but it won't be USF. I'm glad that you had a positive experience there, though, because that's all that matters to you.

[gv0928]

USF is one of the top 366 Colleges in the nation, according to Princeton Review.

I'd be hesitant to write them off.

[And I'm not just saying that because I'm considering transferring there - you can't deny that they've done something right to be in that book.]

[City Boy]

Originally Posted by angelbug

Well...look at any recent edition of California Colleges, check out the range of SAT scores and GPAs for the schools, and USF is clearly not a selective school. My son is applying to colleges now, and we've combed that book looking at stats. USF admits most of the students who apply there - far more than almost any other college in the book, if not all of them. The classes aren't filled with topnotch students. There are SOME excellent students, of course, but the overall level is low. As I said, the teachers are excellent. But all the ones I knew while I worked there were very frustrated with the quality of the students. My ex wouldn't even consider letting my stepson go there, even though the tuition would have been free. Maybe his department, because it was a difficult subject area, felt it more than other departments in the school, I don't know. I just know that when we had parties at ours and other faculty members' houses, I didn't hear too many positive things about teaching there.

No, I don't work for SF State, I work for UC Davis. I've taken classes at both USF and SF State, and that's the basis for my comparison. Yes, the UCs are overcrowded and if you're in certain majors your lower division classes will be huge. Frankly I hope my kid chooses a smaller private school instead of a UC, but it won't be USF. I'm glad that you had a positive experience there, though, because that's all that matters to you.

I'm not sure where you are getting your Stats but the average SAT and GPA scores of USF students is higher than state. Sf State is the school known for admitting anybody. They are overcrowded, it's almost impossible to graduate on time, and an employer will pick a USF grad over a SF State grad. This is a fact. Not to Mention USF's Law school is in the top 100 in the country.

As for the students, I don't know what you mean by the students are not good, especially when you're talking about a large majority of Private school kids who average high GPA's and test scores. Quality of students? What does that mean? If the professors are excellent which they are, why does it matter what the "quality" of the students are like. Alot of my friends who did go to college went to SF State because they could not get in anywhere else including USF. USF admits qualified students in which most are qualified because they have attended private schools all their lives. I'm one of the public school kids who went to a JC and got my GPA to a 3.8 and was admitted as a transfer student. I think you're way off base on your points about USF. I find it hard to believe you even have stepped foot on the campus.

[skatealoneskatetogether]

SF state is just another state school. USF is a good christian school, all though the influx of foreingers is an issue that i feel needs to be addressed.

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by City Boy

UC Berkeley is on of the most renown universities in the country if not world. Berkeley is far more liberal than San Francisco. Nobody cares.

Good point. Berkeley does have an excellent academic record which pre-dates its political fame (infamy?)...

As for USF, yeah colleges lean to the left...but I would still contend (especially in this part of the world, believe me) that having SF in the name would be at least somewhat detrimental to the degree's value. My experience in the South and the Midwest in the last couple of years is that there's at least some negative first impression associated with California in general, and San Francisco and Los Angeles in particular. As to it being Jesuit...that might make a meaningful difference to someone who went there and knows it or does their homework, but...I'm not sure what percentage of folks know that. After all, I lived in the Bay Area 20 years and had no idea it was Jesuit...

Of course, within CA, that's probably a non-issue altogether.

[memorytheatre]

At USF the tuition is over $30,000 a year.
SF State is under $4000 a year and with a Cal Grant and/or Pell Grant it is free.
Thus over four years USF should be at least 28 times better than SF State based solely on price. I assure you that that is not the case. If the price was the same and they had the degree I wanted then probably USF wins out over State. But getting out of school with major debt will destroy any flexibility concerning choices after graduation. To pay over $30,000 to attend ANY school other than an Ivy league institution is insane. Especially for undergrad.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by angelbug

USF is a small Jesuit liberal arts school with not much to recommend it. My ex taught there for 30 years and I worked there for 5. During that time, I took 30 credits in business courses at night. The school, IMO, is really bad, though it had a good reputation long ago. The joke there is that they admit anyone who will pay the inflated tuition, and I almost believe it. In my accounting classes there were students who didn't know how to calculate the 2% discount on accounts receivables. I used to help my ex grade papers - it was a real eye opener that kids could get a college degree with writing skills that poor. During the time we were there, the Western Association of Schools and Colleges almost pulled USF's accreditation. The pity is that almost all the teachers I knew there were excellent, but the students were not. It was a very frustrating place to teach.

I work at a UC system school now and the quality of the students is much better. My kid is applying to colleges now, and if he were hell-bent on going to school in San Francisco, I would send him to SF State over USF any day.

Sorry to be so negative, because I don't like whiny posts myself, but I just know the place too well from a non-student perspective and I can't recommend it.

It seems you are blaming the school for the quality of the students. If the students were as bad as you claim and they were receiving passing grades, then the problem is with the ethics of the instructors and not the quality of the school or its curriculum. Such a condition would also condemn your ex-husband. With that said, allow me to shed further light on USF:

USF is a typical Jesuit institution, and the Jesuits are renowned for academic rigor. I hold both undergraduate and graduate degrees from USF, and I can assure anyone the academic demands are very challenging. Additionally, I am no slouch when it comes to writing skills, and I can testify to the fact that my writing classes were ruthless, and I saw no indication of grade inflation. I witnessed the disappearance of more than one plagiarist, and normal grade curves were apparent, which include both D and F grades.

USF has a highly diverse student population. There are a number of foreign students in attendance, and English is not their first language. Some degree of latitude must be afforded these students relative to writing skills, unless it is assumed a foreign student possesses a perfect command of the English language.

USF is ranked 115th in the nation.

I am a Latter Day Saint (Mormon), and I also attended Brigham Young University (BYU), which is ranked 75th in the nation. I can’t say there is any difference in the quality between the programs at USF and BYU. I have also taken classes through the University of California Irvine, various California State Colleges, and Golden Gate University in San Francisco. As one can see, I have a broad sampling of schools and programs, and I can confidently declare USF is more than a match for any of these institutions.


Finally, I taught in the College of Professional Studies at USF, as well as various other state and private institutions in the Bay Area before I moved. I was no less demanding at USF than at any other institution where I taught, and I can say without hesitation the quality of USF students is certainly equal to the quality of students at the other institutions.

Originally Posted by City Boy

As a recent graduate. I can tell you that you're way off base. Most USF students are top of the class Private school rich kids. There are ambassadors kids who go there, for a reason. The professors are all outstanding and the quality of education is better than any school around here.

The UC’s are overcrowded and have 400 people in some classes. Who can learn that way? The largest class I had at USF had 40 students in it. The professors actually know who you are.

Amen. One of the great advantages to USF is class size. Instructor student ratios are kept low so students may receive a much greater degree of personal attention. Yes, the cost of tuition is high, but quality isn’t cheap.

Originally Posted by jcp123

I don't know much about USF itself or their academics, so I won't comment on that.

What I can say is that a degree from there might be burdened with the stereotypical San Francisco liberalism, which may hurt its value in certain parts of the country. Again, I can't comment on whether or not it IS a liberally biased education, it's just the perception that many may have when they see San Francisco on your degree.

This is interesting. It is my experience that most view a degree from a Jesuit school as a high quality education because of the Jesuit reputation for academic rigor. In any case, I’m Mormon, quite conservative, and I can't typify USF as more liberal than any other school with which I have experience.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by memorytheatre

USF should be at least 28 times better than SF State based solely on price.

28 times better than what factor or factors at SF State?

Originally Posted by memorytheatre

I assure you that that is not the case.

I belive you, so give me some assurances through specific examples.

[GLPman]

USF is a good school, ranked 115th on the National Universities list and also included on Princeton Review's Best 366.

The school has good psychology, nursing, and business administration programs, all of which are extremely popular among the school's 4,700 students. A buddy of mine graduated in '02 and said he loved it; there were great classes and tons of diversity. USF also has a substantial gay population.

USF is a few notches down from Tulane, but I don't know if that matters to you.