SF vs. New York? (San Jose, San Francisco: for sale, rent, crime)

[Milliano]

Originally Posted by capoeira

http://www2.nccommerce.com/eclipsfiles/14826.pdf


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14625179/

NYC fared pretty badly too. Even Chicago was higher!

The article did contain this:

The "Projections 2007" report, which will be released in its entirety next Wednesday, does not attempt to calculate the impact of weather, cultural attractions, proximity to the ocean and mountains or other intangibles that seduce many to California. Guardino acknowledges that the study may be unduly harsh on his hometown.

"A certain number of people would rather be here than shoveling snow in the Northeast in the winter or swatting bugs in the South in the summer," Guardino said.

I don't really understand what that survey is even 'ranking' exactly. (maybe cuz I'm dumb ???)

[icazares]

IMO, the Bay Area is one of the best places to live IN THE WORLD. Not only SF is one of the most beautiful cities in the planet, but also the entire Bay Area is full of amazing sights and hub to one of the most solid economies. No other place in the United States will give you access to explore nature the way the Bay Area does. Within 4 hours of driving (and in most cases less than 2) you have places like Yosemite NP, Lake Tahoe, many other sights in the Sierra Nevada, Napa and Sonoma valleys, Mendocino, Marin County's beautiful rugged coast, Point Reyes National Seashore, Carmel, Monterey, Point Lobos, Big Sur and so on. The Bay Area is a world leader in innovation, not only at the technology level but also in social movements. Think about the anti-Vietnam movement, the hippies movement, the Internet, Sillicon Valley, etc. I would dare to say that corporations in the Bay Area have changed our lifestyle for the good. Take Google for example.

NYC is a great place. I like going there, which I did so many times when I lived in Washington DC. The main problem is that NYC may offer a lot, but you must pay the price. There is no nature around so you are preety much trapped in the city, where good meals or Broadway shows, or any big event are super expensive. If you want to enjoy NYC at the fullest you are almost forced to live in Manhattan, where rents are astronomical (even for North California standards), and you are guaranteed that, unless you are a high paid investment banker or security trader, you are not going to save. There is a serious rat problem, so you may end up paying $2,300 for a very small one bedroom with bad smells, no light and a few rats around. No parks in NYC... it's pretty much concrete and steel. Central Park is a huge park, but instead of having such a big place I would prefer a myriad of small parks. There is more life and more opportunity for singles, but this doesn't come cheap and I strongly disagree with the view that NYC is singles paradise. North Califonia is neither to be honest, but if this is what you look for, I would recommend cities like Washington DC or London.

Once you have a family the Bay Area is waaaay better than NYC but you seem to be far from that point in your life. NYC is NOT kid friendly.

Hope this helps,

[gellio_sf]

Originally Posted by icazares

IMO, the Bay Area is one of the best places to live IN THE WORLD. Not only SF is one of the most beautiful cities in the planet, but also the entire Bay Area is full of amazing sights and hub to one of the most solid economies. No other place in the United States will give you access to explore nature the way the Bay Area does. Within 4 hours of driving (and in most cases less than 2) you have places like Yosemite NP, Lake Tahoe, many other sights in the Sierra Nevada, Napa and Sonoma valleys, Mendocino, Marin County's beautiful rugged coast, Point Reyes National Seashore, Carmel, Monterey, Point Lobos, Big Sur and so on. The Bay Area is a world leader in innovation, not only at the technology level but also in social movements. Think about the anti-Vietnam movement, the hippies movement, the Internet, Sillicon Valley, etc. I would dare to say that corporations in the Bay Area have changed our lifestyle for the good. Take Google for example.

NYC is a great place. I like going there, which I did so many times when I lived in Washington DC. The main problem is that NYC may offer a lot, but you must pay the price. There is no nature around so you are preety much trapped in the city, where good meals or Broadway shows, or any big event are super expensive. If you want to enjoy NYC at the fullest you are almost forced to live in Manhattan, where rents are astronomical (even for North California standards), and you are guaranteed that, unless you are a high paid investment banker or security trader, you are not going to save. There is a serious rat problem, so you may end up paying $2,300 for a very small one bedroom with bad smells, no light and a few rats around. No parks in NYC... it's pretty much concrete and steel. Central Park is a huge park, but instead of having such a big place I would prefer a myriad of small parks. There is more life and more opportunity for singles, but this doesn't come cheap and I strongly disagree with the view that NYC is singles paradise. North Califonia is neither to be honest, but if this is what you look for, I would recommend cities like Washington DC or London.

Once you have a family the Bay Area is waaaay better than NYC but you seem to be far from that point in your life. NYC is NOT kid friendly.

Hope this helps,

A side note - San Francisco's Golden Gate Park is larger than NYC's Central Park.

[cvanripe10]

Originally Posted by icazares

There is no nature around so you are preety much trapped in the city.

No parks in NYC... it's pretty much concrete and steel.

Neither of those statements are true. Central park is huge and is uptown. There are plenty of parks downtown in the village. Hell, the village is practically a park in itself. Last summer i was there and kids were hanging out, skating. In union sq or washington sq park theres always large groups of people, lots of kids.

2 hours from NYC is a beach. In the summer, the beaches are very happening. SF doesnt have a beach, they have an ocean and you cant swim in it because its too cold.

1 hour from NYC you have mountains with lakes, rivers campsites. Vermont is 4 hours away with great skiing and snowboarding. Cape cod is 4-5 hours away, which is one of the greatest places on earth.

The things that bother me about the NYC area are the prices and overpopulation. Way too many people here...way too many..and way too expensive. I'm not working and saving my entire life to be able to just afford a small shack of a house one day, sorry.

It was nice growing up here. Snowboarding, camping in the mountains, kayaking, surfing, going to the city, going to the country. It's time to move out though.

I'd rather pick Sf based on population alone. Dont come to NYC, it's full.

[gellio_sf]

Originally Posted by cvanripe10

Neither of those statements are true. Central park is huge and is uptown. There are plenty of parks downtown in the village. Hell, the village is practically a park in itself. Last summer i was there and kids were hanging out, skating. In union sq or washington sq park theres always large groups of people, lots of kids.

2 hours from NYC is a beach. In the summer, the beaches are very happening. SF doesnt have a beach, they have an ocean and you cant swim in it because its too cold.

1 hour from NYC you have mountains with lakes, rivers campsites. Vermont is 4 hours away with great skiing and snowboarding. Cape cod is 4-5 hours away, which is one of the greatest places on earth.

The things that bother me about the NYC area are the prices and overpopulation. Way too many people here...way too many..and way too expensive. I'm not working and saving my entire life to be able to just afford a small shack of a house one day, sorry.

It was nice growing up here. Snowboarding, camping in the mountains, kayaking, surfing, going to the city, going to the country. It's time to move out though.

I'd rather pick Sf based on population alone. Dont come to NYC, it's full.

We do have beaches in San Francisco. Not sure if you meant to say we have beaches but the water is too cold to swim in. But, we do have beaches. I agree that the water is cold. I don't swim in it, but I see people swimming in it - they are crazy.

I have a good friend in NYC. I just visited her and was very curious about her experience there. She said that it is a pain in the butt to get out of the city, and her and her husband just don't do it.

I think both SF and NYC have a lot to offer outside their respective cities, but I believe it's a lot easier and cheaper to get out of San Francisco.

They each have a lot to offer - two best cities in the U.S. IMO.

[Don Vito]

The beaches in SF are never temperate enough to be pleasant.

[Joe_Ryder]

Since you'll be doing the Hiring.... The SF area will likely be more profitable.
You'll have more options on location and commercial/industrial real estate will be SLIGHTLY cheaper.

SF has a more moderate climate and for half the year you'll be blessed with cool and perpetually wet weather so you won't get homesick. You won't have to worry about too hot or too cold weather and you won't be at the mercy of frequent power outages. The area utilities really have their act together. Electricity is also quite a bit cheaper from what I've been told.

As one poster pointed out, it's a lot easier to get out of SF when you need a break from the throngs.

[gellio_sf]

Originally Posted by Don Vito

The beaches in SF are never temperate enough to be pleasant.

Depends...on a warm and sunny day, I love that I can hope on MUNI and be at the beach in no time. I love sitting on the beach and just looking at the ocean and wading in. Very refreshing. Of course, I'm not one to swim in water that cold - but people do it.

[LJB99]

Thanks for your posts.

First of, in regards to living costs, you have to understand my basis is London - ranked 26% more experience than NYC, and the second most expensive city in the world (behind Moscow).

I have a friend here who's paying £2,200/mo ($4,500+) for a one bedroom apartment. I viewed property in Chelsea last week (admittedly, one of the more expensive regions of London) that was a 320 sq. ft. lime-green matchbox, with a bedroom barely big enough to fit a dwarf, views of the outside garbage disposal unit and a kitchen so small that it had to be separated by a sliding door from the living quarter - there wasn't enough swing radius for a regular door.

It was on the market for £595,000... nearly $1.2 million.

A meal for 2 in an average restaurant runs over $60, and fuel costs a whopping £1.13 per liter... that's $8.61 a gallon.

Worse yet, I earn all my money in USD (with my primary market being US-based), and in the past few years, I've had to work over 50% harder just to have the same money I had in previous years, before I'm up a single cent.

So expense-wise... although both SF and NY *are* expensive by most standards, I'll be 1/3rd richer the moment I move to either. That's not the big concern.

For me, the concern is lifestyle.

As I stated in another thread, a visit to SF for me yielded the impression of a horrible, smelly, crime-infested place of crackpots - the opposite of what I was expecting (and had heard in rave reviews to that point).

NYC has its elements, too. I've visited 4 times. But there's a vibe there that seemed to blot out (and even put into context?) some of the "dirtiness" that might otherwise be highlighted in other cities. I'm sure that sounds odd, but it was a real impression regardless.

Anyway, the reason I asked my original question is two-fold:

1. I need access to good tech talent, good modern amenities, and to be in the right environment for that "new start-up" vibe. Is SF better than NYC in this regard? I honestly don't know.

2. Equal to my professional foothold, is my personal lifestyle. Obviously, I don't expect to obtain an accurate critique by sharing a few sentences - I know nothing of you, and you know nothing of me. However, I'm genuinely curious what attracts people to passionately to both cities - it seems there's a love/hate divide (with SF) especially.

Where one group of people see dirt, crime, arrogance abnormality, another group seem to see beauty, individuality, free-spiritedness.

I'm trying to reconcile the two, really. I'd love to share that same passion for somewhere whilst being in a place thats conductive to the entrepreneurial, tech start-up environment I'm hoping to build.

What do you all do for a living?

All the best, ~L

P.S - Is weather really better in SF than NY? It was my understanding that summers in NYC are genuinely hotter and more "stable" than SF. Winters - well, there it's open to interpretation, I guess. I really like a clean separation of seasons - but then, I really like San Diego's weather all-round 80 degrees, too!

[nirea82]

I'm not from SF and I've been to NY several times but if I had to choose again SF all the way. Professionally I would Choose Seattle it seems to do well economically and it doesn't get as cold as NY.

My problem with NY is it's too crowded for me CA is so beautiful I could never leave. NY never appealed to me though I find the people here have a more european mindset for sure .