Moving from Chicago - Piedmont, Lafayette or neither (Alameda, Montclair: real estate market, schools)

[eastbaydad]

Replying to Ready 555:

You asked a question about renting in Crocker Highlands. We also rented there at one point, and I really enjoyed it. However because we owned property in Piedmont, ( undeveloped lot, now with a house on it) our kids stayed in Piedmont schools.
Piedmont schools are pretty competitive. The HS I believe was recently ranked in Newsweek or US News as one of the top 100 HS in the country. Virtually all the kids go to college, and there is no doubt pressure about where you are going etc etc.
I'm pretty sure that most of the top COCO county schools like Moraga,Lafayette have similar competitive environment.

On the small town question, its not like you will know everybody because there are still 10,000 people living there. But one degree of separation is usually true for school age families.
It really matters when kids get to teenage years, and all of a sudden they are hanging with kids you don't know or going to parties at some kids house.

My wife usually can speak with person X, who knows the parents, and get some kind of scoop on the situation. Not a perfect system, but we have avoiding more than a few situations where relying upon our kids' judgment rather than parent intel could have lead to trouble.
The community is very active in schools, politics etc so the more involved you get the more your network extends.....like most things in life.
Finally, if you are thinking of renting in Crocker and then buying in Piedmont, you might as well bite the bullet now and buy. Housing prices have stabilized and perhaps fallen 1-3%, but historically that doesn't last long in Piedmont. Good luck.

[tennis368fan]

If close-knit communities appeal to you, I will tell you now that there are not many like that in the immediate San Francisco Bay Area. You could try checking in Marin County, the Peninsula, perhaps even the Outer East Bay in the Tri-Valley and Walnut Creek Area for small towns, but I am unaware of how "close-knit" they really are. After all, just because a community is small, it does not suggest that the neighbors will communicate or even get to know one another.

Sunol, CA is a town of around 1,000 to 2,000 residents. It is mostly rural, but it is very convenient to the East Bay, Silicon Valley, and the high-tech corporations in Tri-Valley. It is less a mile away from the Interstate 680 and State Highway 84 Interchange, with State Highway 84 passing through the enclave. The community has a highly-performing Kindergarten through Eighth Grade school, but no community high school and does not seem to have plans to build one. It may be necessary to drive you children to Pleasanton or Fremont for high school. The community is relatively wealthy and mostly European-American, with a per capita income of $45,773 in the 2000 U.S. Census.

The downside is that it is situated between the Hayward and Calaveras Fault Lines, with the Hayward having the highest possibility of rupture out of all major Bay Area fault lines within the next 30 years and the Calaveras ranking third; susceptible to wildfire, susceptible to landslides, and the area immediately around State Highway 84 is susceptible to liquefaction. The Vallecitos Nuclear Center is also only a few miles away.

The homes are on the pricey side and there are not very many homes on the market as it is a small community. Most of the listings are land parcels, though I am unsure if the subdivision of lands is allowed. If it is allowed, you could sell off superfluous parcels to pay off the loan and fund the construction of your home. As for existing dwellings, there is currently one three bedroom, two bathroom home with approximately 2000 square feet for $895,000. Here's the link: http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?ctid=26287&typ=61&sid=a4d9ddc7f a0a414fa16f202e10e48fe7&sdir=1&sby=2&lid=109251454 0&lsn=4&srcnt=11#Detail


Another community worth mentioning for its close-knit feel is Mountain House. It is next to the border of Alameda County and its zip code extends into it. It is located on Interstate 580/205, which is undergoing a widening project. Many in the community carpool, take a commuter bus to the Dublin/Pleasanton BART Station to work within the East Bay, or take a Altamont Commuter Express train to the Silicon Valley. Many work in Tri-Valley companies. Currently, the town has approximately 2,000 residents and a community internet website with a forum where many community members communicate and keep in close touch, MHVillages.com, aside from meeting person-to-person. They have two K-8 schools, with Wicklund School being among the best in San Joaquin County. Bethany School is still new and does not have test scores reported by the state yet. I had visited the community once and found it to be very well-planned, with each "village" possessing its own school and promenades that cut through clusters of homes that lead to the school. There is also an active community effort to bring a high school to the community.

Homes costs considerably less. A 4000 sq. ft. home starts in the low $600,000 range. Here's the link: Single Family Home - 742 Corinne St, Mountain House, CA, 95391 - Realtor.com . This leaves you with a generous amount to save up for private high schools out of your $900,000 budget, in the case a community high school is not built in time. Home prices are expected to fall further in today's market, so you may find better deals in Mountain House as you continue your home search.


Natural Hazards Map

http://gis.abag.ca.gov/website/Fault_Map/viewer.htm - This allows you to view fault zones, as well as areas vulnerable to wildfire, landslides, liquefaction, and different earthquake scenarios and the cities that may have the potential to be affected by an earthquake.

[Ready555]

Pablo, hi.

Yes, I have visited both cities. I lived in Rockridge and Walnut Creek for a short time in 2002 and 2003. Now that I have children, I'm looking at these communities differently.

I think I prefer the Piedmont lifestyle more. I'd like a more urban, yet small community focused environment. My concern is the price of a home there.

Can you comment on what you've seen/experienced recently? I am searching all the typical real estate sites (pacunion, movoto, craigslist, even Grube) but can seem to find a 3 bed home for $950,000 or less...

I've been watching prices for the past 18 months. Piedmont (fortunately, unfortunately) seems to be holding its value quite well. That actually makes Lafayette a more affordable option as prices there have dropped a fair amt.

[Pablo_e]

Ready555 - You can find a home in Piedmont under $1M, but that is basically entry level and they come and go quickly. They are usu. found closer to Piedmont Ave and Crocker Highlands and are typically, 2-3br, 1-1.5 bath. You may also find yourself in a multiple bidding situation (even now) esp. b/c the inventory at that level is pretty limited.

I have not seen any real drop in prices in both Piedmont and Crocker Highlands, just a softening/leveling in the appreciation. In fact, even in Crocker (Oakland), we are still seeing multiple bids, over asking and only 1-2 weeks on the market. This is obviously both good and bad...harder to get in, but prices are more solid and demonstrates desire. You are not seeing this as you head east through the tunnel.

I think that Crocker and Piedmont are more stable b/c you tend to see many people (usu. families) leaving SF and paying $1M+ is not a shock to them. The location is key...people do not want to leave the central bay and like to have amenities nearby.

You are right, you will have more inventory in Lafayette for that price....Moraga too. Hard to tell where prices will go in the future, but I don't see that changing (esp. as Piedmont prices are holding up esp. at the lower end).

I once found myself in the exact position as you....the crappy thing is that Lafayette vs. Piedmont is not apples to apples so it is hard to base it on price. Personally, I could have made an argument for either, but glad Piedmont worked out as I believe it has the best of both worlds for me.

For real estate sites, I like to use ziprealty as it gets its listings from the MLS...the ones you list all look like agent sites so they will only have their inventory. I assume you will find more options in both cities as we get into spring so it might be good to wait and see. Also, there has been some talk of increasing the threshold for jumbo loans (to ~$750k, I think) for 1 year...not sure where that is, but it could make either city more affordable.

Hope that helps.

[Bobz]

Piedmont and Lafayette are both upper middle class with Piedmont being more upper. I have lived in Lafayette since 1969 and am biased toward Contra Costa County versus Alameda County. The biggest concern with Piedmont is that it is adjacent to Oakland which as a deteriorating crime situation. I'm not sure how that affects Piedmont and a Piedmont resident might want to respond to that. Lafayette, Orinda, and Moraga all have excellent schools from k-12. Although home values while they have declined, have not done so as severe as other areas of county. Piedmont has a totally different feel than Lafayette. Parents are heavily involved in their children's education here. Walnut Creek next store to Lafayette has some of the best shopping and restaurants in the entire Bay Area. If you like a more urban environment than Piedmont is a better choice; if you like suburbia, Layette area is your choice. Lafayette has good BART service also and they are building a brand new multi-million dollar library.

[marisita]

Hi Ready555...
I wrote you an email earlier, but just saw this post now...
Lafayette Vs. Piedmont...hmmmm...in the price range you are talking about, I would
suggest: Walnut Creek! Right next door to Lafayette, buys you about $100k more in
a house, larger yard, oftentimes flatter streets, and an excellent school district. Lafayette and Walnut Creek tend to be a lot warmer than Piedmont- thus the pools in Laf/W.C.- it gets to be over 100 often during the summer, but hovers at about 85-90. Winters are also a bit colder here, getting down to low 30's during a few cold weeks, but hardly, hardly, hardly ever snows, and if it did, it would look like a thin kleenex on the ground for about 1 minute. You having lived here before, probably remember this. Anyhow, if you're planning on renting until you buy, might want to consider renting in Walnut Creek or Pleasant Hill, as there are quite a few more rentals out this way, and the prices for renting are less than they would be in Crocker Highlands. Let me know if you would like for me to email you some properties here locally, you just have to let me know what's important to you: yard? pool? cul-de-sac? fixer? 4 bedrooms, etc? and I can shoot you an email with some interesting looking homes. If you are pretty set on Piedmont, we work there as well, I am happy to email you some homes there. Under $1 mil will buy you a small home, small lot, but you can get in. they do tend to go quickly, as someone noted above. Even though prices went down a bit last year, they seem to be stabilizing now due to the very very low inventory and the still high demand. Do you like Rockridge? I have definitely seen some there under $1 mil, and it is so darling...Montclair as well.... You can email me at: mcox@empirera.com ~Marisa Cox Realtor with Empire Realty Associates

[tennis368fan]

I have found four homes in Piedmont on a real estate search engine, but I am not allowed to provide direct links per the regulations of this forum, so I will give you the MLS numbers so that you can search it yourself. One such search engine that I know of is Realtor.com.

5 MAXWELTON ROAD, Piedmont, CA 94610 - MLS #: 40303369
This home is a vacant lot where you can build your own home. I do not know if the lot is subdividible or not, but if it is possible, you turn around and sell the second portion. Then, using systems building, such as modular construction or panelized construction, you can cost-effectively build a home.

751 KINGSTON AVE, Piedmont, CA 94611 - MLS #: 40307932

77 OAKMONT AVENUE, Piedmont, CA 94610 - MLS #: 40308815

89 CAMBRIDGE WAY, Piedmont, CA 94611 - MLS #: 40310881

[18Montclair]

Piedmont is preferable imo but you get less for your money.

2bd/1bth $949,000


2bd/ 1bth $899,000


That said, Lafayette's credentials as a place to live are unquestionable. Its school district is right up there with Piedmont in the highest tier in CA. This is totally a question of personal opinion. Im a bit more urbane myself but I can totally see why Lafayette would be desirable to those who move there. Its not cheap at all, but I think you get more of a yard there than in more crowded Piedmont.

[tennis368fan]

I think you should also look at Alameda, if you have not done already. It's East End neighborhoods east of Park Street are very charming and very walkable. Park Street is a bustling street with many shops and restaurants. The art-deco styled Alameda Theater is being expanded and restored on Central Avenue between Oak Street and Park Street. There is also the Alameda Towne Centre mall at the end of of the district, fronting the beach and the Bay Trail. Central Avenue is a thoroughfare lined with Victorians, Tudors, and other home styles with the overarching branches of trees reaching over the roadways. Same with Gibbons Drive, which even possesses a stock of traditional-styled homes that to me, suggests a very established feel. Alameda High School is also very good. It ranks at #483 in Newsweek's top 1,300 high schools of the U.S., still within the top 500 like Piedmont High School.

Bay Farm Island is an area that feeds into Alameda High School. It is also an option. It is more suburban in essence, but has an extensive lagoon, greenbelt, and trail system within and around the area. There are many tree-lined thoroughfares on Bay Farm Island on the Harbor Bay side, or the newer developments. It is basically like a fusion of Lamorinda and Piedmont, suburban in essence yet very walkable like an urban neighborhood, except with more greenery and no crime, obviously. You can still bike, or even walk or jog, to Park Street from there. The elementary schools on Bay Farm Island are consistently the best in Alameda and can compare with those of Piedmont.

You should also consider Albany, which had an API last year of 832 out of 1000. Piedmont's API last year was 896 out of 1000, after dropping 17 points. Results for this year are not posted until one year from Spring of this year, which is state assessment time and when students take the STAR tests. Albany is mostly urbanized and very walkable as well.

2006 APR Scores (Scored out of 10 for state testing, and the latest APR scores until new ones based on last year's API scores are released in the coming months): 2006 Base API County List of Schools - ALAMEDA County

Last year's API Score, which is essentially this year's and the most current:
County List of Schools

[tennis368fan]

Originally Posted by tennis368fan

I have found four homes in Piedmont on a real estate search engine, but I am not allowed to provide direct links per the regulations of this forum, so I will give you the MLS numbers so that you can search it yourself. One such search engine that I know of is Realtor.com.

5 MAXWELTON ROAD, Piedmont, CA 94610 - MLS #: 40303369
This home is a vacant lot where you can build your own home. I do not know if the lot is subdividible or not, but if it is possible, you turn around and sell the second portion. Then, using systems building, such as modular construction or panelized construction, you can cost-effectively build a home.

751 KINGSTON AVE, Piedmont, CA 94611 - MLS #: 40307932

77 OAKMONT AVENUE, Piedmont, CA 94610 - MLS #: 40308815

89 CAMBRIDGE WAY, Piedmont, CA 94611 - MLS #: 40310881

I would also like to add that some of the homes above that are listed as two-bedroom homes actually have an extra office or a den, which probably can be converted into another bedroom for a total of three. Of course, they may also be one-bedroom homes with a den, for a total of two bedrooms. You may want to ask the listing agent in order to make sure.