How can anyone afford a house in SF area? (Sunnyvale: mortgage, real estate)

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by neil0311

I don't live in CA, but I've seen shows on HGTV where houses in SF and the surrounding area have been profiled. How (and better yet, why?) do people buy houses that are averaging $1 million, especially when they are little houses on postage stamp lots, and many need complete updating (probably to be gutted). "Fixer uppers" are running $800K. Anything decent with an updated kitchen or a decent size yard is going for well over a million.

Is everyone in SF a doctor, lawyer, CEO or lottery winner? How and why do people do it?

There are many ways... but it really comes down to where you want to live and do you have the means to make it work for you...

Both my younger brothers are Brokers and the one that sells homes is very busy right now after nothing for almost 4 months. There have been several high dollar homes bought by people in Canada and Europe... they like San Francisco and view everything as being on sale with the weak dollar.

My brother had an Oakland Fruitvale 4 plex listed and received 7 overbids last week... I think it went for $865k... there is a lot of activity in certain areas and almost none in others.

I can drive through block after block of 1920 to 1940's homes in Oakland and point out the Bank Owned properties on just about every block... it is a very different story in the hills...

As someone pointed out earlier... many people in SF don't have kids and 2 high wage earners without kids have a lot more disposable income.

[LetsGoA's]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

Well, nobody's forcing anyone to stay in the Bay Area... and can you blame "the rich" for buying nice homes in a great area? Reality here is, if you're not making good money & don't ever expect to, you will most likely rent and/or live in a bad neighborhood - your decision. I make a good living and can't yet afford a home, but I don't complain about it since that was my choice! If I save and plan (which I'm doing), I should be able to afford something small in a few years... if not, I'll either accept being a long-term renter or move somewhere else. It's that simple. For now I actually LIKE being a renter, since it gives me the flexibility to move whenever I want, and no responsibilities or homeowner costs.

Btw, some people do use the "trade up" method to afford nice places here... my sister & her husband bought a small townhouse for $450K, sold it 5 years later for nearly $700K, and traded up to a $1M house. I don't know all the details on how they did it, but that seems to be a common story around here. Some people also do creative financing, which is probably not the smartest move.

The SF hostility ahhh I love it, doesn't it just bleed baseball season!

Back on topic though, I never said people are being forced to stay, but lets be realistic, people have carreers, homes, families friends, people arn't exactly being forced to stay, but they are being defacto forced to leave via high prices. We all know this, heck my cowtown (Tracy)had about 35,000 people when my old man moved here, now its got 80,000. Most have the same story, work some where in the greater bay area, wanted a home in a relativley safe neighborhood.

Your not making good money and never expecting too , 'your decision' sounds a little harsh, but Im a harmless do gooder green party guy so maybe its just me...But consider this, there are alot of people who make decent money and expect to continue to that cant afford the bay area. Not everyone is 26 and ready to live with 5 roommates in Marina. Some people make good money and have a few children, or want to own a home, maybe have a yard with some pets.

My city is a classic example. My old man makes about 110k a year(i dont know what it was in the early 90's but im sure it was comperable),a pretty decent middle class salary. Had me and my brother to raise as well as put through university as well as adequately save for retirement. Using the one third of your salary for housing, the other thrid for expenditures, and the other third for savings, it was literally impossible for him to afford a single family home in the bay area unless it was a crummy old house in the east bay, a town house in livermore, condo in pleasanton, crum house in concord. Of course wanting his children to live in A HOUSE with A YARD, in a SAFE neighborhood was the logical option. Since Tracy was closer to his job than pittsburb or Gilroy, he chose Tracy.

Fact of the matter is theres probably 10 or 20 thousand similar stories in my hometown. My neighbor works for the Lab in Livermore, easily a six figure job, his wife became paralysed and can not work, they have 4 children. They moved to Tracy where they could get an affordable home rather than a shack in pleasanton or livermore. My neighbors across the street sold their home in the Fruitvale in Oakland so they could raise their kids on safe streets. He works hard and sells construction parts, im sure he makes good money too.


Furthermore did you ever consider the fact that maybe in addition to people not making good money and never really expecting too, that there are people who want to make good money but never got or get the chance? Have some compassion. Im glad you do not wine about the fact that you do not have to own a home. But do you have children that face going to horrid schools or worse gang violence , not to mention a small and abysmally cramped living space? Something tells me you are not in that position, but guess what, there are tens of thousands of people who are. Maybe if you were not on the outside looking in you could gain a much more broad perspective.

And some people trade up, but especially in todays market, thats only in wealthy areas. Everywhere else that isnt wealthy, homevalues are dropping and no one is selling. You would be crazy to sell, some people would risk loosing all equity. Not to mention some people dont like the perspective of having to play the flip, buy fix up flip, game every 5 years just to get the home they want. Some people buy their homes to actually live in and have their children grow up in. Isn't all this flip, scoop, over extended creative finance junk what caused the housing mess in the first place???

I'm not sure where your sister sold her home but I can assure you even at the height of the boom 750,000k for a town house means it must have been on a pretty posh side of the pond. Or it must have been one HELL of a townhouse. Either way we dont all own $750,000 townhomes

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by LetsGoA's

The SF hostility ahhh I love it, doesn't it just bleed baseball season!

Back on topic though, I never said people are being forced to stay, but lets be realistic, people have carreers, homes, families friends, people arn't exactly being forced to stay, but they are being defacto forced to leave via high prices. We all know this, heck my cowtown (Tracy)had about 35,000 people when my old man moved here, now its got 80,000. Most have the same story, work some where in the greater bay area, wanted a home in a relativley safe neighborhood.

Two of my colleagues moved to Tracy and one to Brentwood and another to Patterson... they all love their homes... in fact they never thought they could own brand new homes... and each is now regretting their decision.

The daily commute to San Leandro is taking a toll on them and they don't see it getting any better. Two of them nearly had their 1940's San Leandro Homes paid off and property tax was quite reasonable, both having bought in the early 80's...

I believe living near to where one works will become an even greater factor as transportation costs continue to rise...

Two have decided to stick it out and two are desperately looking to move back to the East Bay... the problem is that they would have to sell at a loss and they can never get the low property taxes they gave up even if they do come back... and the funny thing is... San Leandro homes are still selling... even in this market as are San Francisco homes.

[LetsGoA's]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Two of my colleagues moved to Tracy and one to Brentwood and another to Patterson... they all love their homes... in fact they never thought they could own brand new homes... and each is now regretting their decision.

The daily commute to San Leandro is taking a toll on them and they don't see it getting any better. Two of them nearly had their 1940's San Leandro Homes paid off and property tax was quite reasonable, both having bought in the early 80's...

I believe living near to where one works will become an even greater factor as transportation costs continue to rise...

Two have decided to stick it out and two are desperately looking to move back to the East Bay... the problem is that they would have to sell at a loss and they can never get the low property taxes they gave up even if they do come back... and the funny thing is the San Leandro homes are still selling... even in this market.

Thats great and all but those two experiences are not only identical (both previously owned homes in the bay when prices were WAYYY cheaper and persumably had some equity, both work at the same job, both lived in San Leandro ) but they also don't tell the whole story. Im assuming both of your 'collegues' don't have children.Because if you compare the elementary schools API rankings of the neighborhood schools with respective home values, (even with tracys cheaper homes)Tracy wins dramatically.California School Performance Maps Infact, the only decent elementary school in San Leandro that appears to have made the grade the one which is the school that serves the well to do children in the San Leandro Hillside. Everything else is in the dirt. Know why all those old time blue collar white folks dont care about their local san leandro schools? Cuz they are all 70 and have been empty nesters for some 40-50 odd years. The schools make no difference to them, and they probably don't to your friends if they dont have children.

Living near year work is great and all, until you factor in having to raise a family. And clearly many people are willing to put their spare time commuting on the line so their children can be safe. Sure some choose San Leandro but most move inland for a more square deal. After all you cant raise a 5 person family in a 800 sq foot house with out being cramped like rats. In a questionable area none the less.

Im sure some places in San Leandro are selling, particularly the affluent hillside. San Leandro has always been some what more affluent than neighboring hayward , san lorenzo, and oakland and has a significant amount of old time blue collar white people that never gave in to the white flight and have owned their homes since the 50's and 60's and The only time those homes are going up is when there is an estate sale.

I would not go so far as to say San Leandro is immune from the housing crisis either there are plenty of half way decent single family homes just sitting and some of these homes are going for well under half a million (infact on remax.com they show some for under 400k), a change from the boom days of east bay house flippin. No ones going to pay 500-600k for a home in a semi-ghetto these days... the markets done. You can get a great home in dublin for that much now a days.

[Ultrarunner]

Good points... and yes they all have Children or even Grandchildren... but none have elementary or high school kids living at home.

I know 3 of the 4 did not plan to continue working and doing the commute thing... it's just when they started looking for similar jobs, whose hiring and pay rates... they couldn't find anything comparable.

About 3 years ago it seemed that every month someone at work was buying a new home in the valley... their old San Leandro Homes were selling with multiple offers in days and they were basically exchanging into a much larger new one with a three car garage vs the 1 car detached they left behind.

Just about anything around 300k or less is moving briskly... and the older homes on larger lots near the marina also seem to go fast...

I would have to say I'm spoiled in that I can get from my East Oakland Home to my work in San Leandro in about 7 minutes and I never want to do the commute thing like I was doing from Oakland to San Jose in the 80's again... and I'm sure it's only gotten much worse.

[LetsGoA's]

Exactly, San Leandro high was also the first high school in California to install survillance cameras. Imagine out of all the cities, San Leandro was the first. Makes you have to wonder...

And yea id say the home values in San Leandro are dropping how long donno, definatly some bargins. But these homes going for say 400k in san leandro(much more reasonable) a couple of years ago, people had the gall to push for 550 and at times 600k. People were literally trying to make small fortunes off investments and it backfired finally.

Some would agree that you got it lucky, 7 mintues to work, some people can barley get get a few feet in that time(try 880 going from hayward to oakland in morning rush hour). But then again others might go to say Brentwood or Tracy and see nice big homes, better schools than the inner east bay's schools (there is a huge difference between east bay schools in the early 80's vs now)quiet streets, a back yard big enoughfor a german shepard to properly have room to excercize, a pool, and they might feel spoiled too.

[LetsGoA's]

Im sorry I just HAVE to comment again though, that whole 'if you dont like it move some where else' junk makes me literally physically sick to my stomach no joke. It's like people like Gizmo want people to drive their muni's, teach their children, put out their fires, drive their ambulances, deliver their mail, drive them to the airport, police their streets, sweep their streets, unclog their pipes, but than when push comes to shove and these people, you know the ones that keep the city functioning cant afford to raise a family in the city it becomes "too bad", "your choice", "if you dont like it you can leave", rather than "Lets address this issue and try and solve this problem". Just makes me sick. And than you get people on this board wondering why everyone thinks californians, particulalry people from the Bay are rude, obnoxious, snobby, like that one thread that read "Why are So many Californian's Mean, rude, and Snobby". Gosh.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by LetsGoA's

Im sorry I just HAVE to comment again though, that whole 'if you dont like it move some where else' junk makes me literally physically sick to my stomach no joke. It's like people like Gizmo want people to drive their muni's, teach their children, put out their fires, drive their ambulances, deliver their mail, drive them to the airport, police their streets, sweep their streets, unclog their pipes, but than when push comes to shove and these people, you know the ones that keep the city functioning cant afford to raise a family in the city it becomes "too bad", "your choice", "if you dont like it you can leave", rather than "Lets address this issue and try and solve this problem". Just makes me sick. And than you get people on this board wondering why everyone thinks californians, particulalry people from the Bay are rude, obnoxious, snobby, like that one thread that read "Why are So many Californian's Mean, rude, and Snobby". Gosh.

What are you talking about?? Sheesh, I didn't mean to sound "hostile," nor did I say the problems shouldn't be addressed... I was just saying that the situation is how it is, and we all have a choice whether or not to face it. I choose to stay and rent in this wonderful but expensive city, and therefore I don't whine about the cost of housing. Furthermore, do you even know what I do for a living, or anything else about me? I am the one teaching your children - LOL. Please don't jump to such quick judgments, and also please stop taking my words as harsh - they certainly weren't meant to be.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by LetsGoA's

Your not making good money and never expecting too , 'your decision' sounds a little harsh, but Im a harmless do gooder green party guy so maybe its just me...But consider this, there are alot of people who make decent money and expect to continue to that cant afford the bay area. Not everyone is 26 and ready to live with 5 roommates in Marina. Some people make good money and have a few children, or want to own a home, maybe have a yard with some pets.

I think you misunderstood me... I make pretty good money, and expect to continue making more over time - plus I'm a Green Party/Libertarian gal. I was saying that for people who aren't in a position to make good livings, they're forced to make a choice whether or not to stay in a pricey area. I'm not lacking compassion for them, just understanding the reality of things. Btw, I'm 31 (almost 32), have 2 roommates in the Bayview district, and a dog & 2 cats who like their small yard.

I'm not sure where your sister sold her home but I can assure you even at the height of the boom 750,000k for a town house means it must have been on a pretty posh side of the pond. Or it must have been one HELL of a townhouse. Either way we dont all own $750,000 townhomes

I said she sold it for ALMOST $700K, which means less than 700... and no, it wasn't in a "posh area," it was in downtown Mountain View. It was a very nice townhouse, but that's besides the point - I was simply explaining how some people get into larger homes. They only traded up once, and are quite happy in their new home, where they are raising my 7 month-old niece. No plans to move again, at least not for a LONG time!

[LetsGoA's]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

What are you talking about?? Sheesh, I didn't mean to sound "hostile," nor did I say the problems shouldn't be addressed... I was just saying that the situation is how it is, and we all have a choice whether or not to face it. I choose to stay and rent in this wonderful but expensive city, and therefore I don't whine about the cost of housing. Furthermore, do you even know what I do for a living, or anything else about me? I am the one teaching your children, and actually work for the city (of Richmond & Oakland) - LOL. Please don't jump to such quick judgments, and also please stop taking my words as harsh - they certainly weren't meant to be.

Oh i get it we all have a choice according to you and the problem should be adressed according to you but we can't voice a concern about it because that would be whining. Kind of like when all those black folks in the 60's were voicing their concerns about racism, they were whining, or people who can barley afford to fill up their gas tanks, they are just a bunch of whining
babies huh?


Sounds a lot like that herbert hoover attitude when the great depression struck. All those unemployed people, they are just whining.

Well thats great, I'm sure the black/asian lady that drives your muni route grew up along her route, has two kids and cant afford to rent so she has to commute from fairfield. The cop who patrols your beat, he lives on the other side of the water in west oakland. Call me crazy but there are a lot of stand up people who work for the city who DESERVE to have their "whining" heard.

And I really am not trying to make my words sound harsh, you are doing a decent job on your own. Im just trying to see if you have some sort of compassion.