"San Francisco Values" used in attack TV ad (Berkeley: environment, work)

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by wanderlusting

All the top cities are west/southwest cities. The first midwest city is #16. Suicide is a non-issue in Milwaukee. I'm dubious.

You were being specific to San Francisco - or at least implying as such - and San Francisco does not constitute the entire West Coast. If you want to argue quality of life in the West vs. Midwest, that would be a whole new discussion.

[Joe_Ryder]

Originally Posted by wanderlusting

All the top cities are west/southwest cities. The first midwest city is #16. Suicide is a non-issue in Milwaukee. I'm dubious.

I think you need to break out the ol' map or at least take a peek at mapquest. Only two of the listed cities are even in California and the closest one to SF is just under 100 miles away. Both of the listed CA cities are in the Sacramento Valley so I can understand that. Las Vegas is #1 which comes as no surprise.

You mentioned that you were dubious about Milwaukee being #16. Having lived in the Midwest, I did notice that Da'Nile is a river that seems to snake through the whole area. I do find it curious that so many Midwesterners seem to spend a great deal of time on these boards comparing themselves to everyone else. It's not just on the CA boards, but everywhere. I have to wonder who it is they're trying to convince and why.

[wanderlusting]

Originally Posted by Joe_Ryder

I think you need to break out the ol' map or at least take a peek at mapquest. Only two of the listed cities are even in California and the closest one to SF is just under 100 miles away. Both of the listed CA cities are in the Sacramento Valley so I can understand that. Las Vegas is #1 which comes as no surprise.

You mentioned that you were dubious about Milwaukee being #16. Having lived in the Midwest, I did notice that Da'Nile is a river that seems to snake through the whole area. I do find it curious that so many Midwesterners seem to spend a great deal of time on these boards comparing themselves to everyone else. It's not just on the CA boards, but everywhere. I have to wonder who it is they're trying to convince and why.

Who is it that needs the map. Are you using Ebonics or are you confusing the midwest with somewhere else. THE Nile is in Egypt.

I don't know about other people here, but I'm not trying to convince anyone. However, I can't let ignorance go unchallenged. I really don't try and compare myself to anyone else in any jealous kind of way. I admire most westerners other than Californians. I admire the south. The northeasterners can be a little snobby at times, but I can deal with that. That's where our country began.

Californians however, make themselves a target. They see themselves as trend-setters in many ways: politics, policies, fashion, music, etc. They think the rest of the country just worships and bows to them. As your crazy demented mayor recently said: "As California goes, so goes the nation." Sorry bud, but we got news 4U. Your "Governator" does not impress. We are not in awe or fear of this thick mass of tissue. We do not want to be like you. We do not want to become the train wreck that you have become. I can't be specific without going off topic, but SF values and California values will not become midwest values. You must understand who you are to us. You are a one week getaway. We will come and spend our money, get a tan, then return to our snow drifts. We will bring no baggage with us and we will take no baggage out.

I won't say that nothing good has ever come from California. We thank you for McDonalds. Still love those fries. California gave us a spirit of exploration and zest for life. Who wouldn't want to drive down #1 on a beautiful day? Some good music came out of SF in the late 60s, but it exists now only as an artifact.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by wanderlusting

Who is it that needs the map. Are you using Ebonics or are you confusing the midwest with somewhere else. THE Nile is in Egypt.

I don't know about other people here, but I'm not trying to convince anyone. However, I can't let ignorance go unchallenged. I really don't try and compare myself to anyone else in any jealous kind of way. I admire most westerners other than Californians. I admire the south. The northeasterners can be a little snobby at times, but I can deal with that. That's where our country began.

Californians however, make themselves a target. They see themselves as trend-setters in many ways: politics, policies, fashion, music, etc. They think the rest of the country just worships and bows to them. As your crazy demented mayor recently said: "As California goes, so goes the nation." Sorry bud, but we got news 4U. Your "Governator" does not impress. We are not in awe or fear of this thick mass of tissue. We do not want to be like you. We do not want to become the train wreck that you have become. I can't be specific without going off topic, but SF values and California values will not become midwest values. You must understand who you are to us. You are a one week getaway. We will come and spend our money, get a tan, then return to our snow drifts. We will bring no baggage with us and we will take no baggage out.

I won't say that nothing good has ever come from California. We thank you for McDonalds. Still love those fries. California gave us a spirit of exploration and zest for life. Who wouldn't want to drive down #1 on a beautiful day? Some good music came out of SF in the late 60s, but it exists now only as an artifact.

Da'Nile = denial. Pretty sure that's what they were getting at.

Where does this animosity towards Californian's come from? What have we done to you?

You have some major inferiority complex towards CA and that's not our fault but rather your own. Most Californian's see themselves as normal everyday Americans like you, we don't care whether or not the rest of the nation follows out trends or picks up on them, not our fault or doing.

It seems the opinion you have of CA and it's residents is largely based off of crap you read in the media and on here b/c they sound like a bunch of tired, played out stereotypes. And who cares of Mayor Newsom says, he's an idiot and it's not like he's the only big city mayor that loves to boast about their city. And we aren't trying to "impress" anyone with our governor, where the hell did that come from? Yeah we elected our governor so we could impress some Midwesterners , that makes sense!

I don't get where this BS comes from that we want the rest of the nation to follow us, do things like us, or be like us. I don't think many Californian's give a damn about what you or anyone else does b/c we do what we want to.

honestly, just get over your inferiority complex and stop thinking too much about a place you apparently don't care much about.

[Alisande]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that was the norm... I'm originally from Maryland & have traveled in the south, so I know the stereotypes aren't true everywhere. I just meant that overall, Northern CA is very tolerant in comparison to other areas. And fyi, I don't "claim" to have experienced discrimination, it was painfully clear in some cases. Do you think all bigotry is imagined?? C'mon!! When a man is wearing a "White Pride Worldwide" jacket and has a swastika tattoo on his head (like a guy I met recently), it doesn't take imagination to know his opinions towards non-WASPs.

Of course I don't believe all bigotry is imagined however, A LOT of it is a little to convienent for comfort. Working in HR for a number of years I saw it raise it's ugly head many times (not bigotry but the use of it). I've never seen the person with the jacket or the tattoo except on tv (I think there is only one clip and they show it over and over).

How many times have we seen the race/sexual orientation/religion etc card played for personal gain? Of course there are idiots in every group. Unfortunately, the survival of the most intelligent can't be enforced (Oops I might not be here if it were ). As a whole I think the PC thing is out of control and quite insane. People are their own worst enemies!

Sorry, if I misread your comments. I thought you said you had experienced discrimination. Like the delusional comments about California,(i.e. all Californian's do not surf) people spread misconceptions about the stereotypical south (which never really existed except in someone's tiny little mind). It has always annoyed me. Self propaganting myths are still just myths.

I do agree that Norcal is very tolerant. Most racial incidents that I have witnessed here have been miniority on minority. (which I don't understand) Both of my children have spent the last 10 years (grades 1-10) in a Norcal school and they have a huge variety of friends. It would probably shock them to be around anyone that really was a bigot. It's a non-issue. Perhaps adults could learn a bit from these kids.

[Joe_Ryder]

Originally Posted by wanderlusting

Who is it that needs the map. Are you using Ebonics or are you confusing the midwest with somewhere else. THE Nile is in Egypt.

I don't know about other people here, but I'm not trying to convince anyone. However, I can't let ignorance go unchallenged. I really don't try and compare myself to anyone else in any jealous kind of way. I admire most westerners other than Californians. I admire the south. The northeasterners can be a little snobby at times, but I can deal with that. That's where our country began.

Californians however, make themselves a target. They see themselves as trend-setters in many ways: politics, policies, fashion, music, etc. They think the rest of the country just worships and bows to them. As your crazy demented mayor recently said: "As California goes, so goes the nation." Sorry bud, but we got news 4U. Your "Governator" does not impress. We are not in awe or fear of this thick mass of tissue. We do not want to be like you. We do not want to become the train wreck that you have become. I can't be specific without going off topic, but SF values and California values will not become midwest values. You must understand who you are to us. You are a one week getaway. We will come and spend our money, get a tan, then return to our snow drifts. We will bring no baggage with us and we will take no baggage out.

I won't say that nothing good has ever come from California. We thank you for McDonalds. Still love those fries. California gave us a spirit of exploration and zest for life. Who wouldn't want to drive down #1 on a beautiful day? Some good music came out of SF in the late 60s, but it exists now only as an artifact.

Ebonics? I'm not going to touch that one with a 10 foot pole. You dug that hole all by yourself. What's bound to come is all by your own request. I was referring to "denial". It was a metaphor...an abstract if you will.. a tongue-in-cheek remark to illustrate a point.

A little history lesson for you: Our European/Western/American civilization began in the south and not the north. Pensacola was the first established western city in North America and St. Augustine is the oldest continually inhabited western city in North America. Both are in Florida.

The Governator was elected in a recall election to oust Gray Davis not so much because he was so impressive but because he wasn't Gray Davis and he was standing there with a pulse and willingness to take the job. Arnold's performance as governor was adequate enough to get him re-elected. For your personal information, Arnold's bulging muscles haven't impressed anyone since the Mr. Universe title was torn from his grasp by Lou Ferrigno back when rocks were soft. We call him the only Kennedy named Arnold. For all of his screw-ups, Arnold clearly loves the state of California and all the success it offered him.

To the assumption that I'm a Californian; Actually I'm a Texan who lives in California. Texas will always be home for me but just like the Governator, this state has been very good to me. I have enjoyed success here that simply wouldn't have been possible, or at least not nearly as easy, anywhere else. I have a lot of issues with CA too but I'm not going to try to convince anyone that it's a bad place. It's good and bad... Sort of a package deal. I actually live here and participate but I'm still having trouble understanding why someone from Wisconsin has so many issues with CA. I'm not on the Wisconsin board saying how terrible a place it is. I've spent a little time there and thought it was rather nice in fact.

Californians as a whole aren't even slightly interested in impressing the rest of the country. Since CA is the largest state with a massive economy that's compared not to other states but other nations, it's quite true that where CA goes, others follow. You may not like it but it's a fact. Many Californians would happily secede from the nation. That's a little tidbit that would surprise most.

This all resulted from your statement that the suicide rate in SF is higher than other places. Your position has been challenged yet you seem unable to substantiate your claim and while others have provided actual stats contrary to your claim, the best counter you've managed to come up with is, "I'm dubious." Sorry, but that's a pretty weak argument. You can insult me all day and let me live inside your head rent free but until you can come up with something a little more solid than your doubt, my position stands.

[Taboo2]

Actually I don't think anything that you mentioned. I just love living here. That is all. Pretty simple. I love Chicago but hate their weather. I love Seattle but it's too rainy for my taste. We have better weather. You just sound SOO bitter about it all. Ebonics? Governator? I didn't vote for him but that is what democracy is, others did and he won. Oh well. Just like South Dakota made abortions for those under 18 require a parental consent.

Why do you care what we think about ourselves? **PLUS** I can't believe you just generalized the entire nation. South, West, Midwest, etc... Can't you even bother to break it down by state, besides your obvious jealousy of Californians that is. It is most bizarre my friend. We are open minded- why can't you be?

I am sure there is someplace in TX I would like. I just havent met it yet. I threw up on stage at Lollapalooza 1995 because Austins weather almost killed me. Thank god The Warped Tour in Houston was at the Astrohall. A/C. You have good music in Austin but that is it. Sound Exchange/Emo's- Good times. Puking I could do without. My fragile California body couldn't take the humidity.

The twang also was a big problem but I think it's worse in Tulsa and Wichita.

Originally Posted by wanderlusting

Who is it that needs the map. Are you using Ebonics or are you confusing the midwest with somewhere else. THE Nile is in Egypt.

I don't know about other people here, but I'm not trying to convince anyone. However, I can't let ignorance go unchallenged. I really don't try and compare myself to anyone else in any jealous kind of way. I admire most westerners other than Californians. I admire the south. The northeasterners can be a little snobby at times, but I can deal with that. That's where our country began.

Californians however, make themselves a target. They see themselves as trend-setters in many ways: politics, policies, fashion, music, etc. They think the rest of the country just worships and bows to them. As your crazy demented mayor recently said: "As California goes, so goes the nation." Sorry bud, but we got news 4U. Your "Governator" does not impress. We are not in awe or fear of this thick mass of tissue. We do not want to be like you. We do not want to become the train wreck that you have become. I can't be specific without going off topic, but SF values and California values will not become midwest values. You must understand who you are to us. You are a one week getaway. We will come and spend our money, get a tan, then return to our snow drifts. We will bring no baggage with us and we will take no baggage out.

I won't say that nothing good has ever come from California. We thank you for McDonalds. Still love those fries. California gave us a spirit of exploration and zest for life. Who wouldn't want to drive down #1 on a beautiful day? Some good music came out of SF in the late 60s, but it exists now only as an artifact.

[wanderlusting]

Originally Posted by Joe_Ryder

Arnold's performance as governor was adequate enough to get him re-elected. For your personal information, Arnold's bulging muscles haven't impressed anyone since the Mr. Universe title was torn from his grasp by Lou Ferrigno back when rocks were soft.

I was referring to his policies more than his physique. Just as I misunderstood you with the DaNile thing.

Originally Posted by Joe_Ryder

Californians as a whole aren't even slightly interested in impressing the rest of the country. Since CA is the largest state with a massive economy that's compared not to other states but other nations, it's quite true that where CA goes, others follow. You may not like it but it's a fact. Many Californians would happily secede from the nation. That's a little tidbit that would surprise most.

It's not your economy. It's your VALUES. Actually CA secession doesn't surprise me at all. Everybody wants to secede, including Alaska, Texas, Hawaii, Vermont, Northern WI & the UP, Cascadia.....etc. Follow your dreams.

[wanderlusting]

Originally Posted by Taboo2

Actually I don't think anything that you mentioned. I just love living here. That is all. Pretty simple. I love Chicago but hate their weather. I love Seattle but it's too rainy for my taste. We have better weather. You just sound SOO bitter about it all. Ebonics? Governator? I didn't vote for him but that is what democracy is, others did and he won. Oh well. Just like South Dakota made abortions for those under 18 require a parental consent.

I'm not bitter, I'm quite passionate, but not bitter. That's the glory of the internet. People can be misunderstood. I actually enjoy reading your responses I lived in Seattle for a while too. That's another city with suicide prone people.

I'm not too sure democracy is alive and well in CA though. Proposition #187 was passed by voters and then thrown out by activist judges. Also, the recent court ruling on gay marriage was the act of an activist court. It seems the voices of the people of CA don't matter. Oh well...

[Alisande]

Originally Posted by wanderlusting

I'm not bitter, I'm quite passionate, but not bitter. That's the glory of the internet. People can be misunderstood. I actually enjoy reading your responses I lived in Seattle for a while too. That's another city with suicide prone people.

I'm not too sure democracy is alive and well in CA though. Proposition #187 was passed by voters and then thrown out by activist judges. Also, the recent court ruling on gay marriage was the act of an activist court. It seems the voices of the people of CA don't matter. Oh well...

Isn't that the most annoying thing! We can hope the activist Judges that are a left over from the 60's die off soon. How many times have the people voted one way just to be told our vote is being over turned.