Riots in Oakland (Berkeley, Alameda, Lafayette: insurance, condo, neighborhood)

[Taboo2]

Originally Posted by Chicagoaklandish

Totally justifiable rage but it's counter productive when people just start smashing and burning randomly. Should've focused the anger on police targets.

What I don't get is how is it STILL justifiable rage?

BART created a committee BART board creates commission to oversee transit police - Los Angeles Times

The officer is now under arrest on Murder charges.
BART officer arrested on murder warrant in NY Day shooting


Now what reason and excuses are we using to terrorize people during a peaceful protest and break business windows?

I believe this won't stop even after a trial because there are always people who like to stir it up for no reason.

Just like some who believe anytime is a good time to party.

Some believe anytime is a good time to RAGE.

This is like a get out of jail free card for many and boy are they taking advantage of it.

[Lulu101]

Do you know for a fact that all of the protesters are outsiders?

Originally Posted by Taboo2

What else is the purpose of continually terrorizing the people of Oakland?


.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Lulu101

Do you know for a fact that all of the protesters are outsiders?

Don't know about all protesters... news reports mentioned that many of those arrested don't live here...

[tennis368fan]

One of the reasons why Oakland became a target for the violence was because:

1. The shooting occurred in Oakland at the Fruitvale BART station, two stations away from Downtown Oakland and one station away from the nearest BART administrative offices at Lake Merritt. All are within a 0.5-0.75 mile radius. Ironically, the violent protests took place away from the place of the shooting.
2. Downtown Oakland has been considerably "gentrified" over the past decade or so. Notable undertakings include the City Center Plaza, Oakland City Hall, Uptown, Frank Ogawa Plaza, etc. During the Housing Bubble, most of this renovation and new construction targeted wealthier households, while having displaced some long-time residents.
3. The remainder of BART's administrative offices are located at 20th Street and Lakside Drive, now known as "Uptown", which was technically part of Downtown Oakland. This is also where some of the meetings regarding the shooting took place.

Had the BART offices been located elsewhere, or if the train was stopped at another station by BART Police outside of Oakland and the shooting occured there, the protests would have occured elsewhere.

[Taboo2]

Originally Posted by Lulu101

Do you know for a fact that all of the protesters are outsiders?

Because most of the people who are arrested, it has been reported by News Organizations, are not from Oakland.

This guy has the best article i have read on it.

Byron Williams: Justice for Oscar Grant? In what way? - Inside Bay Area

AMERICA WATCHED, with the Martin Luther King holiday approaching, as Oakland was portrayed as a city that embodies the antithesis for what the civil rights leader lived and died.
First, there was the grainy video footage by phone cameras that shows the horrific New Year's Day death of Oscar Grant. Second, there was the court of public opinion reaching a guilty verdict as if due process of law is not applicable to this case. Third, there was the absurdity of an officer from Napa shooting an individual from Hayward at the Fruitvale BART station resulting in destruction of property in downtown Oakland.
Some Oakland elected officials and community leaders have failed in their mission, opting instead for the sensationalism of inflammatory comments that will garner the attention of cable networks.
The protesters have been conveniently morphed into a single group advocating senseless violence and destruction. Obviously, not everyone involved in the protests condones the needless displays of mayhem. But how does throwing something through a window or burning an automobile serve the memory of Oscar Grant, especially when his family is calling for calm?
Unrepentant agitators — some don't even live in Oakland — help to further stain the city's image. Their cries for justice as they vandalize property does not mute the obvious — that while they accuse the BART officer of perpetrating
unmerited violence against the innocent, that's exactly what they are doing. Now that the officer accused of firing the fatal shot, Johannes Mehserle, has been arrested, will the needless violence stop? Judging by the actions following Alameda County District Attorney Tom Orloff's announcement that Mehserle had been arrested and charged, the answer may be, sadly, no.
There is simply no way to justify the vandalism that occurred Wednesday night at City Center Plaza. At the time of this writing, 48 businesses had been damaged as a result of two events.
Each act of violence along with the accompanying rabble-rousing remarks merely strengthens the defense attorney's case for a change of venue. Can anyone say Simi Valley?
From the start, protesters, elected officials, community leaders and even the observers have sought to condense this tragedy into something that makes sense. But it doesn't make sense, and it won't.
One of the more oxymoronic displays was the signs that read: "Justice for Oscar Grant." What does this mean? There can be no justice for Oscar Grant or his family. There is no verdict that can be handed down that will suffice as justice.
What exactly is justice? Is it fairness?
However justice is defined it cannot be served on a platter of emotion in the court of public opinion. I suspect that justice is a moving target that is best defined by whatever one's particular self-interest is in the moment.
But there is also justifiable frustration fueled by the knowledge that most of the protesters possess that had they been caught on camera shooting someone, it is not likely they would have been afforded the luxury to go free until the district attorney decides whether or not to press charges.
The manner in which the district attorney arrived at his decision to arrest Mehserle may have been the correct procedure, but it demonstrates tone deafness toward the raw feelings of the community, enhancing the distrust that already exists.
We must collectively be mindful of King's words in moments like this: "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice." The slow, prodding pace of justice ultimately bends toward what is right. But that pace is much slower than most of us would prefer.
There would clearly not have been a Civil Rights Movement had someone decided to set an arbitrary date for when justice should occur, especially for those who would be forced to pay the ultimate price for freedom's cause.
This is the frustrating reality that all who have historically found themselves on the underside of life have had to confront, and it is what those who say they want justice for Oscar Grant must now face today.


Byron Williams is an Oakland pastor and a columnist for Bay Area News Group-East Bay.

[Taboo2]

Originally Posted by tennis368fan

One of the reasons why Oakland became a target for the violence was because:

1. The shooting occurred in Oakland at the Fruitvale BART station, two stations away from Downtown Oakland and one station away from the nearest BART administrative offices at Lake Merritt. All are within a 0.5-0.75 mile radius. Ironically, the violent protests took place away from the place of the shooting

They were not rioting AT the office of BART nor were they Rioting at the Fruitvale station. There was no sensible reason to riot in downtown Oakland.

Originally Posted by tennis368fan

Downtown Oakland has been considerably "gentrified" over the past decade or so. Notable undertakings include the City Center Plaza, Oakland City Hall, Uptown, Frank Ogawa Plaza, etc. During the Housing Bubble, most of this renovation and new construction targeted wealthier households, while having displaced some long-time residents

And what does this have to do with the death of Oscar Grant a Hayward resident merely on his way through Oakland on a train, or with Officer from Napa or using THEM as an excuse to riot? There was no sensible reason to riot in downtown Oakland.

Originally Posted by tennis368fan

The remainder of BART's administrative offices are located at 20th Street and Lakside Drive, now known as "Uptown", which was technically part of Downtown Oakland. This is also where some of the meetings regarding the shooting took place.
Had the BART offices been located elsewhere, or if the train was stopped at another station by BART Police outside of Oakland and the shooting occured there, the protests would have occured elsewhere.

Again, they didn't riot or protest at BART headquarters nor did they STAY at Fruitvale where the death occurred. They went miles away to Downtown Oakland to riot about a guy who was not from Oakland and Cop who was not from Oakland nor worked for OPD. Oakland is not even worth mentioning in this death except that it happened on BART property that happened to be located in Oakland. It could have just as easily happened in Walnut Creek, SF or Fremont since the cops ALL work for BART.


The rioters had to make this persons death about them! It's all about THEIR injustice- NOT Oscar Grant's. Those activist are like leaches trying to turn everything around and self serve their own little agenda's which is why the family said NO to participating.

They don't give a crap Mrs Johnson or his baby and what they are going through. There was no sensible reason to riot in downtown Oakland.

[redwoodlvr]

"An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity."

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

"A riot is the language of the unheard."

---- Martin Luther King, Jr.

[tennis368fan]

Originally Posted by Taboo2

They were not rioting AT the office of BART nor were they Rioting at the Fruitvale station. There was no sensible reason to riot in downtown Oakland.

Unfortuntely, to the minority of protesters, there was reason. It was never publically intended to be violent.

A good portion of the BART offices are in downtown/uptown now, after the headquarters at Lake Merritt were closed down. Had Lake Merritt remained the headquarters, or if BART officials moved their place of employment to, say, San Francisco, the protests would have occurred there. It is called "hitting the enemy where it hurts" in their neighborhood, and, in the mind of the "rioters", forcing them to take responsibility for the good of the community. Downtown/Uptown is where the BART officials conduct business and, when on break, eat and possibly shop at. I personally see the "rioter" viewpoint, but I disagree with their actions.

Originally Posted by Taboo2

And what does this have to do with the death of Oscar Grant a Hayward resident merely on his way through Oakland on a train, or with Officer from Napa or using THEM as an excuse to riot? There was no sensible reason to riot in downtown Oakland.

The officer is a Lafayette resident, per this article:

BART officer arrested on murder warrant in NY Day shooting

Napa was where his parents lived, innocent victims of a bomb scare:

Bomb scare at Mehserle parents' home in Napa

Again, Downtown/Uptown is the place of BART's new headquarters and where the hearings where conducted. If their old quarters were still their home, the riots would encompass Chinatown and the local College, with less of an emphasis at Downtown Oakland.

Originally Posted by Taboo2

Again, they didn't riot or protest at BART headquarters nor did they STAY at Fruitvale where the death occurred. They went miles away to Downtown Oakland to riot about a guy who was not from Oakland and Cop who was not from Oakland nor worked for OPD. Oakland is not even worth mentioning in this death except that it happened on BART property that happened to be located in Oakland. It could have just as easily happened in Walnut Creek, SF or Fremont since the cops ALL work for BART.

True, but BART headquarters is now located in Downtown/Uptown Oakland, who all benefit from BART officials who shop and eat at those stores during break.

Originally Posted by Taboo2

The rioters had to make this persons death about them! It's all about THEIR injustice- NOT Oscar Grant's. Those activist are like leaches trying to turn everything around and self serve their own little agenda's which is why the family said NO to participating.

Yes, I agree, as I have stated in the post that you argued against, Oakland has gone through gentrification in the Downtown/Uptown area, benefiting the wealthier newcomers. The old residents were either displaced or forced into housing projects, and many young people feel that they have not benefited much from this redevelopment. So, yes, there is a social class aspect in the "riots".

Somewhere in the some of the rioter's minds, they believe that they are doing this for Oscar Grant. Unfortunately, their ability to channel their anger into constructive energy is very poor.

Still, keep in mind that the MAJORITY of the protesters were PEACEFUL.

Originally Posted by Taboo2

They don't give a crap Mrs Johnson or his baby and what they are going through. There was no sensible reason to riot in downtown Oakland.

Well, they did not target people specifically, nor did they intend to hurt them. "Mrs Johnson or his baby" should have left the area immediately at the first sign of danger, knowing the racial/social tension that was in the air. The violence did not all of sudden fall out of the sky, after all.

[Woof]

Most people don't engage in riots for profound social reasons.

They riot because they're lowlifes who enjoy destroying property and stealing things.

[Taboo2]

I am not talking about protesters. I love a good protest. I am talking about the people who went just to break away and terrorize the city of Oakland with their destruciveness.

Originally Posted by tennis368fan

Unfortuntely, to the minority of protesters, there was reason. It was never publically intended to be violent.
A good portion of the BART offices are in downtown/uptown now, after the headquarters at Lake Merritt were closed down. Had Lake Merritt remained the headquarters, or if BART officials moved their place of employment to, say, San Francisco, the protests would have occurred there. It is called "hitting the enemy where it hurts" in their neighborhood, and, in the mind of the "rioters", forcing them to take responsibility for the good of the community.

The community? Which one? This involved 2 people who didn't live in Oakland. So what community are they fighting for? I believe they have taken this issue and projected it onto the OPD and that is why the riots occured there. I live in a BART line community yet they aren't fighting for my community.

They were not rioting AT the offices of BART. You can claim they wanted to terrorize where BART directors ATE lunch or whatever, but that is also where CLOROX people eat, and MANY other business eat. That is not smart nor was it very effective in hurting BART itself. It certainly did hurt the city of Oakland which is what I think the rioters were after, not BART.

They were not even hitting the "enemy" where it hurts. That would be AT THE BART STATIONS by CLOSING THEM DOWN, that is where BART get's its income. OH, but wait, most of the rioters probably TOOK BART to the protest, oh know that wouldn't do at all. How would they scurry home?

I Honestly believe the few rioters weren't SMART enough to have a plan. They broke off from the main group and thought it would be cool to break stuff downtown- they wanted to make some noise and show just how angry (insert foot stamping here) they were.

The officer is a Lafayette resident, per this article:

BART officer arrested on murder warrant in NY Day shooting

Napa was where his parents lived, innocent victims of a bomb scare:

Bomb scare at Mehserle parents' home in Napa

So why weren't they terrorizing Lafayette and the cops neighborhood and where HE did business? He is the one who fired the shot.

The old residents were either displaced or forced into housing projects, and many young people feel that they have not benefited much from this redevelopment. So, yes, there is a social class aspect in the "riots".

There are plenty of poor places to live in Oakland, that is StILL where people go to live who cannot afford the other cities in the area.
Forced into housing projects? You mean like the ones that taxpayers pay for because the people have no income and cannot or will not work? Ah yes, I can see how terrible it must be to have someone else pay your rent. NO one forced anyone into a housing project. You still choose where to live. I agree that they are not somewhere i would hope to end up, and perhaps I would leave the area because of that. But still, there is plenty of section 8 housing available that is not in projects. NO reason to riot.

Many people in the bay area have been forced to leave because of the housing rates. And yet we are not all rioting about how we cannot live in our hometown because we don't make enough money. We adjust and deal with it.
Funny how some of us don't throw tantrums because life has given us a raw deal. So no, I cannot condone the few who do throw tantrums as reasonable or acceptable behavior.