4 Oakland Officers Killed (neighborhood, school, gangs)

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by baybook

Nita, you do realize that you are reading quotes from an interview, right? They made a statement about the victims. I'm not sure what more you want. When the reporter asked what questions, they answered. I didn't see anyone blaming this on a bad childhood.

Put yourself in their situation. Your son does something awful. A reporter asks you why would your son do such a thing. And what do you want to say to the public? How do you respond? Do you say, no comment. Do you say he must have been a monster?

I still feel anger at the family's response is misguided. In the midst of what must be shocking for them, they though of the victims first. That is exactly what they should do.

ok, I agree reporters do ask questions that seem totally out of place, but nowhere did I say the family made any referance to anyones childhood..I said, I am tired of these kinds of statements, I am generalizing. Of course the family wouldn't say that..I don't think anyone said the he was a monster thus the family didn't need to make such a statement. Yes, they could have said, no comment or just asked to be left alone for the time being..

Nita

[jman650]

Originally Posted by sav858

NO I am not saying it justifies people being mistreated by cops or society but I knew someone would interpret it like that. I am saying that people need to realize the way they dress and come off will affect other people's first impression and perception of you. It is what it is whether or not its right. People will judge you first based of your appearance, will they not? if you see someone dressed in a wife beater looking like a redneck do you not make some assumptions about them? When you see a person with dreads, tie dye shirts, and peace signs do you assume they are a wealthy republican who drives a hummer or do you assume they are most likely a hippie?

Yes I know there are regular people with college degrees that dress like that and I knew someone would come in and tell me "well I have a very successful friend that dresses like that so what about them?". But what about all the other people who dress like that who commit crimes? It's a stereotype but it exists for a reason.

If you don't want to be treated like a thug or criminal then don't try to dress or look like one. It's pretty simple but some people are too self entitled and thinks society should revolve around them.

I fully agree. If I walked around in a police uniform, people are going to think I'm a cop. Should I get all self-righteous and yell at people for assuming things when they end up thinking I am? Most hood thugs dress in a particular way (depending on where they live) and if you dress just like them, in a thug's "uniform," then don't be surprised if you suddenly fit the description of someone who has recently committed a crime. Should the cops harass every single person they see dressed like that? Of course not, and they don't harass EVERY SINGLE one. But if you dress like that and loiter in the hood, don't be surprised if it ends up happening.

Maybe the cops will calm down (or at least arguing that they should would hold some validity) when the body count disappears and the rest of the crime declines. Until then, people need to either quit putting themselves in that situation, or quit complaining about it when they have to deal with it.

Originally Posted by Nella925

So you are saying that the way they dress justifies the way they are treated by cops??? So what if they wear hoodies, A LOT of people do, so what if their jeans are not skin tight...the way someone dresses should not warrant harassment.

I have to follow the same principal by knowing where I should and shouldn't be in certain neighborhoods, and so does anyone with any sense. Why aren't you all up in arms about a Norteno not being able to wear his red clothes in a Sureno hood? I mean by your logic, so what if he's wearing a red shirt and Niners hat while walking down 19th St?? A LOT of people do too, so shouldn't he be able to without harassment? No? How is this any different?

We should be able to wear what we want, but there are limits and boundaries. If some ignorant hillbilly wants to wear a KKK shirt with racist remarks written on it, should he be allowed to walk around in public without getting harassed? If you're going to try and make this argument you'd better look at both sides of it. People can dress like thugs if they want to; I have many friends that do. But you should know what kind of attention you're asking for if you do, and don't act defiant toward the police if you don't want them to mess with you. I can't stand power-tripping punk police, but not all of them are like that and they do have a job to do.

[sonarrat]

Originally Posted by Nella925

Ok, I was just replying to what I read.
But yes, I make assumptions on how someone looks as to who they may be as a person, but assuming and acting on those assumptions are different things.
IMO, it is way deeper than clothes.
They could be dressed in regular shorts and a shirt and still may be harassed.

Of course, but the droopy pants and tall tees come from prison gangs. Anyone wearing it is making a statement about an acceptance of that kind of culture.

[jman650]

Originally Posted by Nella925

Ok, I was just replying to what I read.
But yes, I make assumptions on how someone looks as to who they may be as a person, but assuming and acting on those assumptions are different things.
IMO, it is way deeper than clothes.
They could be dressed in regular shorts and a shirt and still may be harassed.

Now when that happens that is some BS. No one really should be harassed, but if a crime happens and someone is dressed exactly like 95% of the people that commit these same kinds of street crimes, I don't think the cops should be faulted for looking there first. And in most cases, the cops are going to go after a dude walking slowly down the street with dreads, gold fronts, a black hoodie and sagging his pants over a guy in a polo shirt and baggy jeans that aren't sagged. These same thugs know how to dress decent -- they do it all the time when they go clubbing! -- they just choose to act in a certain way b/c that's how their hood culture dictates that they should. There are plenty of good guys in the hood that don't dress or act that way, and the ones I know personally have dealt with much less harassment from police than friends of mine who have been involved in crime and dress the part.

[MrSykes]

Originally Posted by Nella925

The only connection I can make is people are wondering WHY he got pulled over. If it was just a regular traffic stop, what did he do wrong to justify him being pulled over. That's the only connection I can see people making.

Either way, I think cops need to start wearing bullet proof vests or something of the sort because its just getting too dangerous.

I read he was on his cell phone with his uncle just looking for a parking space.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by MrSykes

I read he was on his cell phone with his uncle just looking for a parking space.

and he had a gun and he was on probation??? I am not sure it makes a lot of difference why he was pulled over, and I don't think nayone will ever know but the fact remains he killed 4 people...

Now I am going to try and stay out of this debate, I really don't have much more to add.

Nita

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by fizbin

I don't think this incident has anything to do with any pre-existing sides. A guy with a gun who does not want to get arrested gets pulled over and makes a (bad) decision. Things inevitably escalate. This is one guy making an f'd-up decision and that's it.

So what if this one didn't relate directly? There is still palpable tension between police and civilians.

[adysmom]

If the poilce were black would he still have killed them???

[sav858]

Originally Posted by MrSykes

I read he was on his cell phone with his uncle just looking for a parking space.

If that is true then he broke the law right there talking on his cell phone while driving, unless it was handsfree. Many times its a little stupid violation like this that reveals a much bigger violation, like the fact he was on parole and carrying a gun.

[MrSykes]

Originally Posted by Nella925

I have a lot of friends who dress in this manner, but they are harmless (have no criminal record and are actually intelligent college students).
What do you want them to dress like??? 'Skaters', 'emos', 'nerds'??? So you are saying that the way they dress justifies the way they are treated by cops??? So what if they wear hoodies, A LOT of people do, so what if their jeans are not skin tight...the way someone dresses should not warrant harassment.

Exactly.

One incident I will never forget. I was relaxing at home playing a video game in a T-shirt and shorts when my mother sends me to the corner store to buy some toilet paper. The weather being a tad breezy, I throw on a hoodie and I'm out. Didn't bother with a belt because I was just making a quick run (even left the video game paused). I get to the store only to realize I'm a few dollars short. Irritated, I run back home (which was only a half a block away from the store), got more money, and I'm out again.

Right before I cross the street to get to the store parking lot, I am greeted with a fast approaching squad car (thought they were going to hit me so I jumped out of the way a little), a bright light, guns drawn, and a forceful "get your f'in hands up boy". Shortly after that, "get the fk on the ground! get on the ground!" Shocked and confused (considering this was my first ever experience with the law and that the commands came at me almost simultaneously), I ask what's goin' on with my hands partially raised, not sure whether to stand there or get on the ground.

So I'm rushed like a quarterback by a couple of surfer-looking 50's (who looked not too much unlike some of the OPD four), slammed against the hood of the car and cuffed. In the meantime I'm still trying to find out what's going on, scared as hell, when I was told to shut up by one of them, followed by, "Yer momma didn't whoop your a$$ enough that's what's goin' on!" Mind you I'm an A/B student with no criminal record at the time. I told them that I was just on my way to the store to run an errand for my mother. They vigorously emptied my pockets, shoes, socks, sure as death they were gonna find something. After scrupulously analyzing the $6 I had for the toilet paper (as if they were gonna magically transform it into $600 in drug money), they left me prostrate on the hood for at least another 15 minutes.

As I was let go, the pigs didn't even have the professional courtesy to apologize. Probably too embarrassed to apologize to a young black male they just knew was up to no good. What do I get instead? "Well......you should have been a bit more cooperative with us. You're runnin' around in this rathole of a neighborhood - you need to be more careful and cooperative."

Are you freakin' kidding me!? So not only do I get no apology, but it was my fault I got jacked up by those pigs in the first place, and now I live in a rathole where simple errands at the convenience store are no longer allowed. I could have easily been just another piece of inner-city black collateral damage "justifiably" gunned down by two "heroes" who "risk it all" to protect me that night. Gimme a break.