Sky high real estate prices in "good" school districts (Oakland: neighborhoods, to buy)

[btrflymama]

Originally Posted by nmnita

I agree with you to a point: I think many inter-city kids suffer from lack of discipline at home so the teachers have to spend too much time handling the students, often leaving little time to teach. add to that the lack of desire, and the poor school atmosphere..Those who want to achieve are sometimes held back because nobody has the time for them..

My comments earlier were more related to middle income schools is the burbs versus top schools.

Someone mentioned how Stanford looks at applicates, the thing too many are fogetting 90% of the kids who are going onto college are not going to Stanford, Havard or even Berkeley. Too many parent what the prestigue of saying "my little Johnny is headed to Yale"

Nita

While most students aren't heading to the Ivy League or Stanford, many are finding it near-to-impossible to even get into our UC system these days. It is HIGHLY competitive. Students with a perfect GPA and loads of extra-curricular activities are turned away all the time from CAL, UCLA, UCSD... It's really too bad. Not everyone expects to get a Harvard education, but when you feel the odds are against you at the UC level, well.... that's tough to swallow. (and for the record I think our UC system is fantastic!)

Some of you don't think the quality of the school matters. IT DOES. Quality universities DO look at the high school of their applicants. The high schools are given a point value based on their ranking and those point values are considered when evaluating a student's application. Obviously the high school is not everything by any stretch, but don't kid yourself.... it matters! It matters so much that an applicant from an average high school with stellar grades will probably not be considered at an Ivy League school, a Stanford, or CAL or UCLA. And by not considered, I mean not even looked at!

So why does your elementary school matter? It matters because starting in kindergarten children start to develop their own ideas about excellence. If you are surrounded by intelligent, hard-working, motivated kids, you are far more likely to perform than if you were placed in an environment with average students who are rather unmotivated. These "intelligent and motivated kids" are more highly concentrated in higher socio-economic status areas. Their parents are successful in their own right and likely have post-graduate degrees and thus value education and can appreciate the importance it plays in your life. They naturally pass this down to their kids through their own expectations of their child and the experiences they provide for their child. When you put 20 of these kids that come from these "types" of families in one room, you are going to see the bar rise. Throw in a quality teacher, plentiful resources, extra programs, and top-notch facilities and you have the makings for potential success. These kids are raised in an environment where they see excellence daily and learn to work to those standards. If you have never seen excellence, it is hard to know what the potential is!

I own a home in Lamorinda. I bought in that area because of the excellent schools. At the time of this writing Orinda is #1 in CA and Moraga is #2. Lafayette is not far behind. All 3 of my kids will benefit from these amazing schools and I'm confident my home will retain its value far better than most areas in CA (in large part because of the schools). I am not saying that sending your kid to an "average" school means they won't be as successful as mine. NO WAY! Not saying that. But, you give your kids a leg-up in life when you put them through a K-12 school system that is top-notch. Whether or not they utilize that knowledge and experience to their advantage is really up to them ultimately. Putting a kid in an average setting puts them at a small disadvantage and potentially makes it tougher for them to get into the best schools and thus attain the best jobs. But this is hardly black and white. Each kid is different. And it is entirely possible that a kid from the inner-city will be a HUGE success in life. But it'll be harder for that kid!

I see nothing wrong with parents wanting what's best for their kids and that means top schools. I am not delusional enough to think I am guaranteeing success for my kids' futures. I'm just doing what I can to help them succeed and that means ensuring their spot in a high-performing school with kids who are from families that value the same things I do.

Now, intense parenting and helicopter parenting is another matter and occurs in ALL areas, expensive or not. I don't agree with that approach. But I don't find anything wrong with giving your kid the best shot at life.

[fizbin]

Originally Posted by nmnita

Someone mentioned how Stanford looks at applicates, the thing too many are fogetting 90% of the kids who are going onto college are not going to Stanford, Havard or even Berkeley. Too many parent what the prestigue of saying "my little Johnny is headed to Yale"

Of course any normal parent would be proud that their kid got into Stanford or Yale, but you say it like it is some dirty thing. The fact is that kids who go to those schools will make connections that will give them a big leg up for the rest of their lives. And the fact is that there is a much higher percentage of kids coming out of the Piedmont school district getting into those schools than there is from the Oakland school district. Any parent who gives a rats butt about their kids would be negligent if they did not get their kids out of crappy schools if they could afford to.

[fizbin]

Originally Posted by btrflymama

While most students aren't heading to the Ivy League or Stanford, many are finding it near-to-impossible to even get into our UC system these days. etc. etc.

btrflymama,

That was an outstanding post. Thanks!

[btrflymama]

Originally Posted by fizbin

Of course any normal parent would be proud that their kid got into Stanford or Yale, but you say it like it is some dirty thing. The fact is that kids who go to those schools will make connections that will give them a big leg up for the rest of their lives. And the fact is that there is a much higher percentage of kids coming out of the Piedmont school district getting into those schools than there is from the Oakland school district. Any parent who gives a rats butt about their kids would be negligent if they did not get their kids out of crappy schools if they could afford to.

Agreed! I think what's going on here is there are people who cannot afford these areas and they are bitter and resentful. So, to pad their egos and wipe their tears they look for ways to passively insult those of us who have worked hard to save our money to buy in these areas. To say that top schools don't matter for a kid's future is ridiculous. And I bet that if these people could afford these areas, they would buy here in a heartbeat!

[Mach50]

Originally Posted by fizbin

Of course any normal parent would be proud that their kid got into Stanford or Yale, but you say it like it is some dirty thing. The fact is that kids who go to those schools will make connections that will give them a big leg up for the rest of their lives. And the fact is that there is a much higher percentage of kids coming out of the Piedmont school district getting into those schools than there is from the Oakland school district. Any parent who gives a rats butt about their kids would be negligent if they did not get their kids out of crappy schools if they could afford to.

The problem is that many parents can not afford it and yet stretch themselves out to get in there. To the point where they live in the house, in the district, and they cannot leave.

Like I said, I'll take my kids to a 7/10 school, they will shine and improve the school where we can afford to go on a European Vacation...where they will learn so much more about life.

It's too much of a race.

[Mach50]

Originally Posted by btrflymama

Agreed! I think what's going on here is there are people who cannot afford these areas and they are bitter and resentful. So, to pad their egos and wipe their tears they look for ways to passively insult those of us who have worked hard to save our money to buy in these areas. To say that top schools don't matter for a kid's future is ridiculous. And I bet that if these people could afford these areas, they would buy here in a heartbeat!

Hey no resent here, I just question the logic of people going broke and locked up in the house all day for a school district.

You have all laid down points that you believe, I can respect that, but I believe people should go to where they can afford and make the best out of that school district.

[btrflymama]

I totally agree that people should buy what they can afford and this goes for houses, cars, clothes, food, etc. And while some people might be stretching, many of us are NOT stretching. We ARE living within our means.

As for European vacations providing better learning experiences.... I have to respectfully disagree with you. Sorry, I don't see the logic. Sure, travel is valuable, but if your child is unable to construct an intelligent, organized, and insightful essay for their college application, and if your child lacks the skill set to perform well on the SATs, I think they are going to find themselves aced out of most quality universities and colleges. And if you don't think a college education is necessary for success in life, well.... that's a conversation for another time. These days I would argue you need a graduate degree on top of a bachelors. We can argue what ideally SHOULD be occurring in our society all day long, but the REALITY of our world is the educated have opportunities and the uneducated start off behind. Medical schools are not interested in your travels as a 10-year old. They want to know you can pass a test.

[jzt83]

Originally Posted by btrflymama

Agreed! I think what's going on here is there are people who cannot afford these areas and they are bitter and resentful. So, to pad their egos and wipe their tears they look for ways to passively insult those of us who have worked hard to save our money to buy in these areas. To say that top schools don't matter for a kid's future is ridiculous. And I bet that if these people could afford these areas, they would buy here in a heartbeat!

Yes, I envy those who are able to pay $1.6 million on a modest 3 bed 2 bath house. I wish I could use my money in such a very responsible and practical way. Seriously though, I just think the disparity of quality between school districts in CA, esp the Bay Area and even LA to a greater extent, is not fair to the children and is appalling.

[Mach50]

I have a B.S. in Aerospace Engineering and a M.S. in Computer Science went to inner city schools, now work in Silicon Valley. I traveled the world with my parents at a young age and it really helped my maturity and understanding of the world.

We have different models for life. Good luck with yours.

[btrflymama]

Originally Posted by jzt83

Yes, I envy those who are able to pay $1.6 million on a modest 3 bed 2 bath house. I wish I could use my money in such a very responsible and practical way. Seriously though, I just think the disparity of quality between school districts in CA, esp the Bay Area and even LA to a greater extent, is not fair to the children and is appalling.

You seem to be saying a few things here. You seem to imply that those of us who spend a lot of money on homes in areas with top schools aren't being responsible. Assuming I have this correct, I want to know how you can possibly think that? If you have kids, chances are you want what's best for them in life and providing my children with a quality education is one way I can equip them with the skills necessary to succeed in life. My husband and I make sure we live within our means every month and have no debt (other than mortgage debt) so that we are not putting our family's well-being in jeopardy. How could this possible be considered irresponsible?

You then go on to complain that the disparity is not fair. Perhaps. Life is not fair. Look throughout America. There's disparity everywhere on many levels. You can't escape it. Is it "appalling"? I kind of don't think so. It's reality. It's unfortunate, but that just means some of us choose to work harder to make it work so our kids are on the winning end of this disparity.