Is S.F. Really Worth The Cost? C'mon -- Really? (Nice: rent , job)

[Taboo2]

Originally Posted by ohyes!

I guess I can understand making a sacrifice to stay here if you have an extended family in the area

SO HERE is what sucks.

People like you come here and push the home prices and rents up and people like me who DO have extended family (this is MY boise or houston or piddly hole alabama or wherever small town people are from) and who born and raised here have to actually consider LEAVING their family and friends because they can't afford to stay.

Get it?

We may not want to leave but have to because we can't afford to stay here much longer. I have 4 generations of family from here and yet I can't stay. I have over 120 cousins brother sisters inlaws and other... not to mention friends from school and work I may have to leave. We make over $100,000 a year and yet that is not good enough.

Talk about the depression.

So my advice is get the hell out if you don't like it here, maybe we can stay if some of you people who are unhappy here would just GO HOME!

[kevin_1975]

Originally Posted by Taboo2

SO HERE is what sucks.

People like you come here and push the home prices and rents up and people like me who DO have extended family (this is MY boise or houston or piddly hole alabama or wherever small town people are from) and who born and raised here have to actually consider LEAVING their family and friends because they can't afford to stay.

Get it?

We may not want to leave but have to because we can't afford to stay here much longer. I have 4 generations of family from here and yet I can't stay. I have over 120 cousins brother sisters inlaws and other... not to mention friends from school and work I may have to leave. We make over $100,000 a year and yet that is not good enough.

Talk about the depression.

So my advice is get the hell out if you don't like it here, maybe we can stay if some of you people who are unhappy here would just GO HOME!

Do not worry about me leaving "piddly hole Alabama". But do you really think we do not have a lot of people moving in that is causing our prices to go up? It is not just San Fransisco. Our wages may be lower, but they even out with the cost of living or use to. Well cost of living in, can you believe "piddly hole Alabama" are going up, but the wages are not. I can understand what you are saying, but you do not have to dog someone's home that you may consider a low life state. Millions of people like it or no one would be here or better yet continue to move here. We were affected by thousands of people moving here after Katrina that caused prices to rise. Did we tell them to go home? No, we accepted them and welcomed them in to our state. Yes, this is a different situation than y'all are experiencing, but prices going up and wages no longer covering the expenses is the same. It is nation wide, not just in one single location.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by sav858

Yes there are some close minded people like that but it kind of works both ways, plenty of people in the Bay Area can't fathom why anyone would want to live outside of there either.

Isn't that kind of the point of these forums and threads like this? To show others who don't get why people pay so much to live there why they do pay that much to live there. And the way the original poster phrased his/her question that is exactly what they were trying to find out. If anything these forums can show someone from the Bay Area why Kansas is a great place to live for certain reasons and can show someone from Kansas why the Bay Area is a great place to live for other reasons. Therefor giving people an idea on whether or not it's worth it to them.

Yes, absolutely... and that's why this is such a great forum! I just get frustrated when people ask "why do you live there?" and then refuse to accept our honest answers. I live here because it's home, my family lives here, I love the weather, culture, scenery, etc. But some people don't think that's enough, and try to convince me & others that we're crazy. We all have our reasons for living where we do, and I think everyone needs to respect that - whether you live in Kansas, NYC or San Francisco. If you ask us more specific questions, like how much it actually costs & which places are safe vs. dangerous, we're usually happy to give a straight answer to that too... right?

P.S. I'm not really referring to the original poster here, since I honestly can't remember that far back... but these threads usually end up in a "you're delusional" "no we're not" kind of fight.

[gizmo980]

Oh, and please take it easy Taboo... we don't need to get nasty, do we?

[Fokker37]

"So the result of all of this has been a severe limitation in the amount of available housing. Despite newer homes and lofts being built recently, the required supply is still pitifully low in regards to the amount needed. So in my opinion, home prices are high due to the lack of careful civic planning. I refuse to pay for poor decisions."


With respect to the notion that limitation in housing construction is poor civic planning, many of us who live or want to live in the Bay Area are at least partially attracted to the area because of some designed limitations in urban sprawl. I've lived in NYC for 6 years, and in Tampa for 1 year. In a few months I'll be returning to Walnut Creek. I could have taken a position anywhere in the US, but electively chose to move to the East Bay because of its protected open spaces and limitations on new housing. Yes, that means higher prices, but also protects the "quality of life" that I seek.

As for the housing market, simple math can help determine what will inevitably happen. The median yearly income in Walnut Creek (an affluent area) in 2005 was 68 K and change. Unless there is a huge number of trust fund babies in this crowd, there aren't enough people making adequate incomes to ride out a 30 year mortgage for a 700K house. Even without ANY interest, that's 1944 a month for 30 YEARS. In that income tax bracket, over half of takehome pay would be spent on mortgage principal. Add in property tax, mortgage interest, etc., you have an unsustainable situation.
I am banking on this unavoidable reality, and anticipate housing prices to drop at least 30% in the next 5 years (as some economists predict). For the time being, the prudent move for potential buyers to collectively sit, wait, and watch the coming free-fall in prices. The only wrench in the works might be a foolhardy bailout by our government, which will only hurt all of us in the long run. After that disastrous experiment fails, the price decline will continue.

Remember, it will be a buyers market for years to come. There is no rush to buy!

[kraigk1]

Originally Posted by Fokker37

"So the result of all of this has been a severe limitation in the amount of available housing. Despite newer homes and lofts being built recently, the required supply is still pitifully low in regards to the amount needed. So in my opinion, home prices are high due to the lack of careful civic planning. I refuse to pay for poor decisions."


With respect to the notion that limitation in housing construction is poor civic planning, many of us who live or want to live in the Bay Area are at least partially attracted to the area because of some designed limitations in urban sprawl. I've lived in NYC for 6 years, and in Tampa for 1 year. In a few months I'll be returning to Walnut Creek. I could have taken a position anywhere in the US, but electively chose to move to the East Bay because of its protected open spaces and limitations on new housing. Yes, that means higher prices, but also protects the "quality of life" that I seek.

As for the housing market, simple math can help determine what will inevitably happen. The median yearly income in Walnut Creek (an affluent area) in 2005 was 68 K and change. Unless there is a huge number of trust fund babies in this crowd, there aren't enough people making adequate incomes to ride out a 30 year mortgage for a 700K house. Even without ANY interest, that's 1944 a month for 30 YEARS. In that income tax bracket, over half of takehome pay would be spent on mortgage principal. Add in property tax, mortgage interest, etc., you have an unsustainable situation.
I am banking on this unavoidable reality, and anticipate housing prices to drop at least 30% in the next 5 years (as some economists predict). For the time being, the prudent move for potential buyers to collectively sit, wait, and watch the coming free-fall in prices. The only wrench in the works might be a foolhardy bailout by our government, which will only hurt all of us in the long run. After that disastrous experiment fails, the price decline will continue.

Remember, it will be a buyers market for years to come. There is no rush to buy!

Always be weary of people that are so sure of markets, like they have a crystal ball. Just in the last week there have been many articles showing that the economy might be just fine after all.

We're already 1-1.5yr into the housing decline. How much longer do you really think it will last out here?

[jahutch]

I have looked at prices in SF, as compared to area like NYC and the close in parts of Northern Virginia / DC and frankly, they aren't all that different (in the area of NOVA I am looking at, a small 1br condo costs around 400K, and the rent for the same thing is 1750+). If your sole goal in life is to own a home, then no, SF will not be worth it, nor will any other big city on the coast. On the other hand, if you can get past the American obsession with home ownership and enjoy renting, you will find in general that your salary is high enough to compensate for the increased rents.

I look at it this way... owning a home in a place like San Francisco or NYC is frankly something only the wealthy can afford. That doesn't mean you don't watch for opportunities if you live there, but when you live in a place like that, generally you just plan on renting, end of story. It seems to me the "home procurement" obsession some posters have mentioned is pretty unhealthy.

Bottom line: If you like outdoor activities, and dislike heat, and like the natural beauty of the bay area, combined with the cultural opportunities, the dining option, and the general city life, AND you are happy renting - I'd say its worth it. If you really want a McMansion with a picket fence and a back yard - you are better off in the South or Midwest. That's just never going to be affordable somewhere like San Francisco.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by jahutch

I look at it this way... owning a home in a place like San Francisco or NYC is frankly something only the wealthy can afford. That doesn't mean you don't watch for opportunities if you live there, but when you live in a place like that, generally you just plan on renting, end of story. It seems to me the "home procurement" obsession some posters have mentioned is pretty unhealthy.

Well -- that isn't exactly true either. With you is the home procurement obsession -- with me it's the "is it safe" question that gets to me. But buying a home has been a stepping stone for building wealth until recently -- and believe it or not it's not prices that did that in -- it was the home equity loan. It's a house, not an ATM. Having a stable mortgage allows a person to save more money.

But if you are willing to live in a "not so desireable" area there are some great deals to be had -- but they are the sweat equity wonders. Look at homes in 94607,94603,94621 and 94601 -- plenty under 200K and quite a few real wrecks under 100K. I'd bet a lot of those are liveable in while you do the work, too. It's not pleasant to live in a house with plywood nailed over the big hole in the back where they will install the garden window after the electrical passes inpsection (although I have to tell you, working in a kitchen with that openness is really kinda cool!), but when you keep in mind it's just a moment in the time you live there.. it's bearable.

[sonarrat]

Originally Posted by Tallysmom

Well -- that isn't exactly true either. With you is the home procurement obsession -- with me it's the "is it safe" question that gets to me. But buying a home has been a stepping stone for building wealth until recently -- and believe it or not it's not prices that did that in -- it was the home equity loan. It's a house, not an ATM. Having a stable mortgage allows a person to save more money.

But if you are willing to live in a "not so desireable" area there are some great deals to be had -- but they are the sweat equity wonders. Look at homes in 94607,94603,94621 and 94601 -- plenty under 200K and quite a few real wrecks under 100K.

FWIW, keeping in mind you -did- say they were not so desirable areas..

94607 - West Oakland. Highest homicide rate in the BA. It does contain Jack London Square though.
94603 and 94621 - Deep East Oakland. The "killing fields," only a little better south of 98th on the S'landro border.
94601 - Fruitvale and the "Murder Dubbs." Not quite as extreme as the others, but still not someplace most people would want to live.

94606 is all right - Lake Merritt, Rancho San Antonio, etc. But there is very, very little stock under $200K. And most people will prefer to look at 94602 (Laurel/Dimond), 94610 (Grand Lake/Crocker), 94611 (Montclair/Piedmont), 94618 (Rockridge), or 94619 (Laurel/Maxwell Park), most of which are priced way, way out of that range.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by sonarrat

FWIW, keeping in mind you -did- say they were not so desirable areas..

94607 - West Oakland. Highest homicide rate in the BA. It does contain Jack London Square though.
94603 and 94621 - Deep East Oakland. The "killing fields," only a little better south of 98th on the S'landro border.
94601 - Fruitvale and the "Murder Dubbs." Not quite as extreme as the others, but still not someplace most people would want to live.

94606 is all right - Lake Merritt, Rancho San Antonio, etc. But there is very, very little stock under $200K. And most people will prefer to look at 94602 (Laurel/Dimond), 94610 (Grand Lake/Crocker), 94611 (Montclair/Piedmont), 94618 (Rockridge), or 94619 (Laurel/Maxwell Park), most of which are priced way, way out of that range.

But it takes urban pioneers to pull these places out of the hole! Years ago when we were looking for a house, we wanted a dump we could do up ourselves... now if if it's not turnkey, complete with granite and stainless (both things I despise!) and done in a neutral pallette, it's just not acceptable to people.

And the funny thing is -- after all the work that goes into places, the people that buy it do it again! Sometimes down to the granite!

Humans are a funny lot...