Home prices still too high. (San Jose, Oakland: sale, rentals, condo)

[sliverbox]

Still- would you want to live in East Oakland? Even comparing East Oakland to say- another Ghetto somewhere else is the same story. Ghetto homes in Detroit- with perhaps even less crime at that- are selling for sometimes as little as $6,000. Some of them the local government will sell you for $1 just to keep the thing from being burned down. Also- 100k in many other parts of the country is a pretty decent starter home not in the hood.

[Tallysmom]

Sliver, you and I have been around and around this subject before. But I honestly don't think prices will ever drop far enough for you to consider it a deal.

You're too cheap.

It's okay-- I am, too.

I think your other problem is you have standards. I don't think you'd consider coming down to the East Oakland Flats, buying a small house really cheap that needs lots of work, and doing that work. You sound like you want a nice a house in a great area cheap.

And there is nothing wrong with that, either. But you're not going to find a Rockridge gem for 200K -- it just ain't gonna happen, my friend.

My question to you would be -- are you happy enough here for the time being to stay here in the conditions you are living in, or are you going to move out?

Frankly, I'm starting to find the whole intellectualization and rationalization of real estate on this and many other websites very tedious. You want to buy a house? Buy a house. You don't want to buy a house? Don't buy a house.

Chattering on and on and on makes everyone who doesn't own a home sound bitter, while the ones that do own homes sound holier than thou.

[sliverbox]

Tallysmom,
No, as I mentioned I am not all about a nice house. I think a 1,000 sq foot home is perfectly adequate. We have no kids nor plan on having them. I also have friends who live in the not-so-great- part of Oakland and so far there has been two shootings down the street and one burglary of their home. So I have good reasons for not wanting to do that.

Yes- I've complained about prices in the past. But I haven't been on here in a long time and in the intervening time I've gone and visited Austin TX, Raleigh, NC, Atlanta, GA, and Houston, TX. All pretty decent places with reasonable costs of living. So as you can see I'm making the motions to make the change and taking a proactive stance by educating myself. But not likely anytime soon since the economy is in the crapper. Probably more like 1.5-2 years or so. In the meantime, I can still complain can't I, because it is still afterall- ridiculous here. Oh well.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by sliverbox

Tallysmom,
No, as I mentioned I am not all about a nice house. I think a 1,000 sq foot home is perfectly adequate. We have no kids nor plan on having them. I also have friends who live in the not-so-great- part of Oakland and so far there has been two shootings down the street and one burglary of their home. So I have good reasons for not wanting to do that.

Yes- I've complained about prices in the past. But I haven't been on here in a long time and in the intervening time I've gone and visited Austin TX, Raleigh, NC, Atlanta, GA, and Houston, TX. All pretty decent places with reasonable costs of living. So as you can see I'm making the motions to make the change and taking a proactive stance by educating myself. But not likely anytime soon since the economy is in the crapper. Probably more like 1.5-2 years or so. In the meantime, I can still complain can't I, because it is still afterall- ridiculous here. Oh well.

It is ridiculous here, but other things are ridiculous other places. I was telling someone about my mom's property taxes in Cranberry Twp in PA -- she pays about 1200 in property taxes. That's the stuff you'd see on Zillow.

And then she pays 1300 in school taxes. That's tied to the property.... and not listed on Zillow. And my mom lives on Social Security and a little bit of investments.

My sister who lives in Allegheny County, as a cute little stone house that she paid 142K for a five years ago or so -- and her total taxes are over 6K....

Once, when I held vague hopes about retiring at 50 (this year.... darn it) I was loking into various states, and pretty much it looked as if no matter how hard I tried I'd pretty much pay out the same amount one way or the other.

And in talking to my sister, she said something that resonated. It's not where you land, it's how you live. There are things I need in life. A good library, some good quilt stores because you really have to see the fabric to match it, decent food stores because I cook, some funky diners that serve good burgers and fries and breakfasts and good health care for us and our cats (from all those burgers and fries!).

I don't need nightlife, I don't need fine dining, I don't need bookstores, I don't need Starbucks. Please note -- there's nothing wrong with any of those things -- I've just reached an age where I can easily live without them.

My happiness is far more important than taxes and home prices. As is yours. As is everyones....

[Puddy4LyF]

I'm a condo hunter and I can say that the price for those have certainly dropped alot. I stay out of the houses because I don't want a bunch of debt, but if you don't mind a condo, you'll find good prices there. A condo I looked at in the city was 1.2m and now it's 300k. I'm moreso looking at Benicia, Hercules, etc and there are nice condos with a garage for 95k - 200k. In El Sobrante, there is a brand new set of condos they were trying to get 330k when they were new are now 120k. Don't think that's a steal? Look into condos.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by sliverbox

Still- would you want to live in East Oakland? Even comparing East Oakland to say- another Ghetto somewhere else is the same story. Ghetto homes in Detroit- with perhaps even less crime at that- are selling for sometimes as little as $6,000. Some of them the local government will sell you for $1 just to keep the thing from being burned down. Also- 100k in many other parts of the country is a pretty decent starter home not in the hood.

Welcome Back... I had you for M.IA.

Anyway, East Oakland Greetings

I sold my Home on Havenscourt in 2004 for 255k. Nine months later the Buyer resold it for 350k and last month the Lender sold it for 70k...

Maybe, I'm foolish... but I would have bought it back for 70k with the improvements... Back in 82-83 I was into it close to 45k with the repairs I made...

I've mentioned a home on Brookdale that sold for 440k a few years ago that the bank has been actively marketing for 160k... lots of lookers... still on the market after 6 or 7 weeks...

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by sliverbox

Still- would you want to live in East Oakland?

There are many areas of East Oakland I'd live in.

One place that seems woefully underpriced right now is a small corner of Oakland that totally borders San Leandro called Sheffield Village. Its nice and quiet with well maintained streets and homes-lots of trees too. And right now a huge bargain.

Even comparing East Oakland to say- another Ghetto somewhere else is the same story. Ghetto homes in Detroit- with perhaps even less crime at that- are selling for sometimes as little as $6,000.

Yes but that is a matter of the local real estate market. Oakland has something's Detroit does not. Oakland is surrounded by tens of thousands of middle to upper income households that until recently have been shut out of the market. Oakland also has thousands of immigrants that will move into the hood without a second thought if it means home ownership. Oakland is also located in the Bay Area-so despite its reputation, prices are not going to ever go as low as places like Detroit simply because our housing market is much more robust.

[sliverbox]

It is ridiculous here, but other things are ridiculous other places. I was telling someone about my mom's property taxes in Cranberry Twp in PA -- she pays about 1200 in property taxes. That's the stuff you'd see on Zillow.

And then she pays 1300 in school taxes. That's tied to the property.... and not listed on Zillow. And my mom lives on Social Security and a little bit of investments.

My sister who lives in Allegheny County, as a cute little stone house that she paid 142K for a five years ago or so -- and her total taxes are over 6K....

-Which makes sense. The bulk of the Northeast is basically almost as bad, if not worse in terms of cost to California. That's why if you look at the Raleigh Durham city data site, its an absolute madhouse. Virtually every post is from someone in NJ, PA, NY, MA, and so on- all wanting to move down there. Why? Because you can get a decent home for 150-200k and their taxes are cheap.

I visited Raleigh Durham personally. Its got a lot of the same things you'd find in the Bay Area. Believe it or not, NC has quite a few wineries- one which is the 70th largest in the world. It also has 6 microbreweries. It- like the Bay- has three cities separated by 10-15 miles. One is a college town and very liberal: Chapel Hill. One is a bit more slick and modern ( Raleigh) and one has a bit more of a rough edge but is quirky( Duraham). And again- the cost of living there is phenomenally cheap compared to the Bay Area. I'm not saying that its just like the Bay Area nor would I want it to be. But it has an awful lot of the same things people here claim as being special.

I also visited Austin. It was awesome. It has an interesting history. You can drive through the countryside and visit small towns originally settled by germans who built beautiful buildings out of limestone. Some of these towns looked like one in Europe. The city itself is very clean, safe, and full of fantastic restaurants and bars. It was also refreshing to me because it was obvious that its a much younger city than SF in terms of the age of people there. That tends to make places more vibrant and creative. yes- they had higher property taxes, as in 2-3% per the value of the home. But the thing is that I seriously saw a plethora of 100-150k homes. Nice homes with charm and character. You want to know why they're cheap? Its because those taxes provide a consequence if prices get too high. It works well and makes sure that people making median area wages can actually afford to live in their houses. In the case of California and Prop 13, this actually causes prices to skyrocket. On top of that- Austin has over 300 days of sunshine. That's a lot more than what you get in the Bay Area.

I'm making these points because I actually went and visited these places. After seeing them personally, I can tell you that I could very happily live in either location. I could try and make it work here, pour lots of money into a house, and work for decades paying it off, or I could move to one of these lesser expensive cities, take the money I've saved and buy off a chunk of the mortgage enough to have a minimal mortgage payment just to build credit, put the rest into retirement, and basically retire by the time I'm 55 or younger. So as you can see, I've thought this through a lot.

Still doesn't change my mind though: Homes in the Bay Area are overpriced.

[bayarea-girl]

Silverbox, I here you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some of the homes that are still for sale in CA for $500K and up can't even compare to the $150K homes you can get in other places of this country. People in CA have gotten use to paying more and making it the norm. Some people just pay more for things here otherwise they feel something is wrong with it. I love CA but it is not the only state that has a nightlife, wineries, great food, desirable places to live in, etc. But when you mention the South to people in CA, you would think an alien has landed. The only thoughts that go through peoples minds are the south's racial problems of old. When the south is becoming more and more diverse.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Prices are still very high in the "nice" parts of San Mateo County (e.g. the places that were in demand prior to the outrageous boom of 1994 - 2007). Prices have actually been flat in some hoods.