What will finally cause California to decline significantly? (Berkeley, Montclair: sales, real estate)

[Roccaluma]

Has the tipping point been reached where all of a sudden people just leave and the state goes radically downhill or is it more of a slow burn? I looked into information on how the business community views taxes and and costs here in California and they view the climate here very unfavorably. I read about some business that moved to Arizona and had the electrical costs. And will other areas figure out how to do the internet?

I love the weather here and the laid back lifestyle.

Will the liberal state and local governments raise taxes another one or two percent which suddenly causes a mass exodus of the wealthy to no income tax states like Nevada?

What seems to keep the place going is illegal immigrants who are coming from a much worse place than here and legal immigrants coming from poorer countries who accept the high costs. Those two trends will not change so maybe California will continue going like it has for quite awhile.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Roccaluma

What seems to keep the place going is illegal immigrants who are coming from a much worse place than here and legal immigrants coming from poorer countries who accept the high costs. Those two trends will not change

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Immigrants, whether legal or illegal, don't think differently from non-immigrants - they go where the jobs go.

Now if said immigrants start businesses than they help the economy, but good luck trying to get a loan right now. Not to mention the overreliance of CA on fees and sales taxes deeply hurts small business (as well as being one of the main causes of CA's fiscal dysffunction)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by majoun

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Immigrants, whether legal or illegal, don't think differently from non-immigrants - they go where the jobs go.

Now if said immigrants start businesses than they help the economy, but good luck trying to get a loan right now. Not to mention the overreliance of CA on fees and sales taxes deeply hurts small business (as well as being one of the main causes of CA's fiscal dysffunction)

The Bay Area is not like the rest of the state in our views on Immigrants. We actually like them.

People outside of the Bay Area seem to be a bit more negative because they assume everyone is an illegal mooching off the system.

Its funny.

[BayDude]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

The Bay Area is not like the rest of the state in our views on Immigrants. We actually like them.

People outside of the Bay Area seem to be a bit more negative because they assume everyone is an illegal mooching off the system.

Its funny.

No one cares about legal immigrants. People tend (except maybe in the bay area) tend to not like illegal ones that try to beat the system.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by BayDude

No one cares about legal immigrants. People tend (except maybe in the bay area) tend to not like illegal ones that try to beat the system.

Actually, I dont think most Bay Area people are mad at Illegals either.

That anger seems to be much more concentrated outside the Bay Area.

I used to live in SoCal and even back in the 90s, there was much animosity towards illegals while up here, one rarely hears any negative comments.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Roccaluma

Has the tipping point been reached where all of a sudden people just leave and the state goes radically downhill or is it more of a slow burn? I looked into information on how the business community views taxes and and costs here in California and they view the climate here very unfavorably. I read about some business that moved to Arizona and had the electrical costs. And will other areas figure out how to do the internet?

I love the weather here and the laid back lifestyle.

Will the liberal state and local governments raise taxes another one or two percent which suddenly causes a mass exodus of the wealthy to no income tax states like Nevada?

What seems to keep the place going is illegal immigrants who are coming from a much worse place than here and legal immigrants coming from poorer countries who accept the high costs. Those two trends will not change so maybe California will continue going like it has for quite awhile.

I think it is more of a slow burn, unless "the big one" hits the state, then I think there will be a mass exodus, kind of like there was from New Orleans.

But I also think another poster was right...if California keeps up with its mismanagement, immigrants will go to other places. That is already happening. Even the illegals are immigrating to non traditional places in the South & Midwest.

[bayarea-girl]

Illegal immigrants are huge in the South. There is a huge Asian and Spanish presence there. There were parts of GA where I swear I was in CA. The cost of living is cheaper else where and the demand is high for them as well.

[BayDude]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Actually, I dont think most Bay Area people are mad at Illegals either.

That anger seems to be much more concentrated outside the Bay Area.

I used to live in SoCal and even back in the 90s, there was much animosity towards illegals while up here, one rarely hears any negative comments.

Notice I said "except in the bay area". Try to keep up.

[hsw]

CA is like NYC...big, complex, economically powerful places with thousands of smart, rich people and many millions of dumb, poor people

Silicon Valley is a different animal than rest of SF region or CA (or US); many/most of smartest (and wealthiest) engineers in SV are legal immigrants from places like India who came to US for grad school at Stanford or Berkeley and (thankfully) never left SV

Value to US economy of most illegal immigrants is less obvious to many capitalists

Upside of a difficult economy is less immigration of illegals as lack of low-skill jobs...and companies moving low-skill jobs out of CA/NYC to TX, etc to improve their profit margins; offer better QOL to low-wage workers; and reduce housing costs, traffic congestion in SV/LA

Makes little economic sense for many millions of low-wage/low-skill workers to choose to live/work in CA or NYC

[LakeShoreSoxGo]

Liberal mismanagement. Most people agree california started going down hill in the 80's, once it was clear there was pro illegal sentiment in sac. LA isn't even white in terms of plurality anymore. There is really nothing left in California, everything is bust. Dot com, defence industry, real estate, areospace... all the state has left are the ports, which import everything from China, hollywierd, and what is left of the dot.com industry. Some one should have gave californians the memo that taxing business and the middle class to death is not a smart way to keep the economy robust.

Enjoy the sinking ship, at least you'll have a hell of a sunset.