Berkely, Oakland, San Francisco ... compare for me please (Berkeley, Highland: for sale, power lines)

[Minier]

I'm looking into the SF area trying to narrow down which areas and neighborhoods would work best for us. I'm still unsure whether we'll be able to live (or want to) right in the city or whether it would be wiser to find a closeby suburb (hopefully not cookie-cutter development sprawl *cringe*). About us: New Yorkers with two kids soon to be school-aged, currently work from home and can transport jobs anywhere but may need physical job down the road, have about 400 -500K to put into a house but might also prefer to rent (undecided about that long term, definitely will rent for the first year to get to know the area).

Could you please compare Berkeley, Oakland and San Francisco for me on the following dimensions (as well as any other criteria/ factors that you think would be interesting or important to note) and by all means list any good neighborhoods or even a whole other city I didn't mention that you think it's darn swell and I should add it to my list ... I'm starting from knowing NOTHING about this area nor about CA , so any little bit of info counts

cost of living

violent crime and property crime

quality of schools

diversity (ethnic and sexual orientation) and/or tolerance thereof

weather (subjective, I know, but tell me what you think anyway)

types of homes and their cost

employment (I know it's bad everywhere right now, but when things are normal, how are they? Mostly in the field of mental health and university professorship/research)

walkability (do you need your car to go most places other than around the block?)

recreation/culture (namely music events, festivals, bars, restaurants, outdoor sports, open markets, etc)

[ssmaster]

as always the limiting factor in where you will live in the bay area is money.just to clarify is the $500,000 down payment on a house or how much you can afford for a house?how much are you willing to pay in rent ?also are you interested in public school or private schools?

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Other than cost the three places you mentioned per se are quite similar, overall. Granted, the most upscale part of SF is more upscale than either Oakland or Berkeley (but not by an outrageous degree) and the most downscale parts are roughly comparable (although at that end, the downest of the down in Berkeley is essentially a single pocket). You might want to expand your horizons in terms of places you are considering here - this is a conurbation of over 100 individual communities, circling the Bay, and extending outward from it, filling in various intermontaine valleys, encompassing nearly 8M people.

[ssmaster]

bayareahillbily- you have a good point but i just assumed the op was looking for a more urban ebnvironement

[Minier]

The 500K would be total available. Rent-wise, we could probably wing $2k a month give or take.

bayareahillbilly - you are right that I need to expand. I'm sort of just starting with the more known areas to us east coasters, but I'd love to hear other suggestions of places to check out. I'm not stuck in the urban environment - as long as it's an interesting town/ neighborhood with it's own charm/ character, I'm happy to look at it. Since cost is such a big deal, I know we'll have to really maneuver around to find what we need. Just wasn't sure where to start, so started with these three well-known spots.

oh, and I much prefer public school.

[artemis78]

In Oakland, check out the Dimond and Laurel districts, which have a nice combo of what it sounds like you're looking for in that price range and have relatively good neighborhood public schools. Mostly single-family bungalows with growing neighborhood centers, lots of families, and beautiful parks nearby. The Glenview District might also be an option, though it's probably a bit too expensive. You might also get lucky with something near Peralta Elementary School in Lower Rockridge, where occasionally fixer-uppers sell in that price range in the parts that are still gentrifying (basically the area between Shattuck and Telegraph Avenues, and very occasionally east of Telegraph). That area has much better access to transit, shopping, etc.---but is also priced accordingly.

If you're not looking for single-family, you have a lot more options in all three cities. I would absolutely recommend renting, too. Also, depending on how close to school-age your kids are, you have a really good Oakland option: rent in a more upscale area (where rents are a lot less than mortgage payments) until your kids start school. Once kids are in school in Oakland, they can stay at the school even if the family moves elsewhere in the city, and siblings can attend as well. That gives you a lot more flexibility in your housing search---and in some cases there are even adjacent neighborhoods with all the amenities of the "good school" areas but with lower prices because they're districted to a lower performing school, etc. I don't know how school lotteries work in Berkeley and San Francisco, though I've heard they are much less predictable than in Oakland, where people pretty much get neighborhood schools for better or for worse.

I'm obviously extremely biased as an Oaklander, but I really think Oakland is the best of both worlds: easy access to jobs and entertainment in SF (and increasingly in downtown Oakland too), but with much more livable (cost-wise and scale-wise) neighborhoods where it's realistic to have yards and walkable communities without the trappings of suburbia.

On the safety front, Oakland's reputation certainly precedes it, but writing off the city because of it is like reading about life in the South Bronx and then wondering why anyone would ever want to live in New York City. The bad parts of Oakland are indeed very, very bad, but conversely, the good parts are very, very good. And there's a whole lot in the middle depending on what you're comfortable with---the city is huge geographically. General rule of thumb is that neighborhoods tend to be safer above MacArthur Blvd (which cuts through most of the city), except for the area near Lake Merritt, which is an outlier. Neighborhoods to the west of Highway 24 are also somewhat rougher. However, these are pretty broad generalizations, so there are obviously exceptions. Most of the neighborhoods with strong schools tend to be fairly safe, though (because the schools drive gentrification, etc.) so that's one way to get your head around it.

[18Montclair]

I agree with Artemis.

Laurel and Upper Dimond along with Redwood Heights, Glenview, Lakeshore-Grand Lake, Lincoln Highlands and Crocker Highlands make up an area of Oakland known as the Lower Hills.

I highly recommend looking in those areas, particularly Glenview, Lakeshore-Grand Lake and Crocker Highlands.

Hillcrest Elementary(public) in Crocker Highlands is one of the highest scoring in the entire state and actually ranks higher than any elementary in SF or Berkeley.

[artemis78]

As a caveat, Lakeshore-Grand Lake (where we live) is a great neighborhood to live in---but does not have a good neighborhood elementary school, sadly. (The school here sits up against the freeway, so many families won't send their kids there independent of the performance, making it a poor candidate for much improvement.) Crocker is great but expensive---but there is a little corner of it where there are a lot of power transformers that bring property values down. If you're comfortable with these near your home (which obviously many folks aren't!) you can get pretty outstanding deals in the $500K range---equivalent homes sans power lines sometimes go for twice that. Hillcrest is an amazing school but you basically can't buy there---a million plus to even get in the door (and even then you're not guaranteed a spot at the school). However, I think there are a bunch of underappreciated Lower Hills schools that combine great school communities with great neighborhoods: check out the areas districted to Sequoia, Glenview, and Cleveland Elementaries, for starters.

Good luck!

[sonarrat]

I read the title too fast and saw "Berkeley, Oakland, San Francisco... prepare for me please" and I was like damn girl, I don't know if we'll be ready for you!

[zugor]

You might want to try CraigsList for both rental and homes for sale to get an idea of what's available in the East Bay and SF. I lived in the Maxwell Park, Dimond and Laurel for nearly 30 years and can agree with other posters that those are decent areas.

If you like getting outdoors then the East Bay Regional Parks will provide lots of places for the family to enjoy.

Parks | East Bay Regional Park District