Is it a brutal reality that San Francisco is NOT a safe city overall? (Irvine: apartments, home)

[clongirl]

Originally Posted by Radical347

Ok, this is the type of question that bugs me. (And it's the exact same question I get when people become defensive that I'm disagreeing with their image of SF being a complete safe haven!) Because this question (even though it doesn't say it outright) implies that the crime rate is skewed because for some reason there's a different type of person getting murdered in SF than anywere else. That's just not the case. It's true that criminals are way more likely to get murdered, but as I wrote in my previous post, that's the case everywhere. So it does not skew the crime rate.

Because in the case of SF, just like everywhere, there are homeless people, criminals, and hard working everyday tax paying people getting murdered. I do not go up to the murder victims right before they are murdered to ask them if they are a druggie, a thug, or a hard working tax-payer. But since SF has a much higher overall murder rate than, for instance, San Diego, I would think a higher percentage of druggies, thugs, and hard working tax-payers -- all of the above -- get murdered in SF, than in SD. It doesn't seem to make sense to think the increase in murder rate is due to thugs alone.

When comparing crime rates, and just talking about how safe or dangerous a city is overall, I compare city to city. (I.e. San Francisco is more dangerous than Denver. San Francisco is safer than Detroit.) I do not compare the good areas of a city to the bad areas of a city. Because in any city, there will be good areas and there will be bad areas. The good areas of the city will be safer than the bad areas of the city. That's not unique to San Francisco.

I agree..it just seems like you cannot accurately assess crime in any city. I have never been a victim of a violent crime in SF..I used to have to take the bus home from the tenderloin after I got off of work at 11:30 pm. Never had anything bad happen..it could have, but it didn't.

However, a good friend of mine was shot and killed "protecting" his car during a break in and mistakenly confronted some thugs (this was in "safer" Japantown). I've also known people that were mugged on busy Haight St where loads of people stood around and did nothing while she screamed for help.

It's a matter of fate, bad luck, circumstances, opportunity by the perpetrator, etc. It either happens to you, or it doesn't. I don't think crime statistics make one city "safer" or "less safe" for any given person.

Obviously, if you are a victim of a crime, you're entire view of the City will be skewed towards thinking it's a violent, crime ridden place.

[sonarrat]

Where you will feel the crime rate is in random petty crime.. if you own a car and park it within sight of the street, it will be damaged. If there is anything visible in the seats, it will get stolen. I stayed short-term in the Sunset for just a month, and someone dented my car while it was parked - on the curb side! Just walk on any residential street and note the damage on every single car.

[gogetta]

I have never been the victim of a crime myself in SF, although I have came close. The worst thing to happen to me was having SFPD draw there guns on a buddy and I on Geary in the Richmond. One literaly cocked his shotgun and pointed it at my head. It turns out that somehow we "fit" the description of people shooting guns in the area? It was bizarre considering I had just walked out of a friends house seconds before on my way to the store. After the hysteria they ended up giving us a piece of paper basically stating that we had been falsley arrested and cannot sue lol...I was Pissed!!

Anywho, a friend of mine was actually stabbed to death at fisherman's warf a couple of new years ago, RIP.

[rah]

Just to show where SF used to stand in terms of crime (which i'm sure will surprise some people), here are the cities with the most raw numbers of robberies and murders from 1990 through 1996. SF is 9th for robberies (pretty high, at an average of nearly 1,000 robberies per 100k residents per year, which is twice as high as it is nowadays), and 25th for murders (an average of around 14 murders per 100k residents per year...not too high, though not low...and which is just a little higher than it is nowadays):

robberies:

1. New York City, NY 507,850
2. Chicago, IL 218,587
3. Los Angeles, CA 213,750
4. Philadelphia, PA 76,257
5. Detroit, MI 75,212
6. Houston, TX 67,909
7. Baltimore, MD 67,505
8. Dallas, TX 51,747
9. San Francisco, CA 43,898
10. Washington DC 42,368
11. Miami, FL 42,313
12. Atlanta, GA 35,060
13. Newark, NJ 33,758
14. New Orleans, LA 32,708
15. St. Louis, MO 32,322
16. Memphis, TN 30,130
17. Boston, MA 27,494
18. Cleveland, OH 26,917
19. San Diego, CA 26,723
20. Kansas City, MO 24,905
21. Milwaukee, WI 24,421
22. Oakland, CA 23,809
23. Long Beach, CA 21,763
24. Columbus, OH 21,688
25. Jacksonville, CA 21,374
26. Phoenix, AZ 20,552
27. Las Vegas metro, NV 20,120
28. Minneapolis, MN 18,457
29. San Antonio, TX, 18,232
30. Tampa, FL 18,141
31. Buffalo, NY 16,878
32. Fort Worth, TX 16,809
33. Nashville-Davidson metro, TN 15,516
34. Seattle, WA 15,452
35. Pittsburgh, PA 15,342
36. Portland, OR 14,897
37. Fresno, CA 14,723
38. Jersey City, NJ 14,605
39. Sacramento, CA 13,123
40. Cincinnati, OH 12,835
41. Indianapolis, IN 12,390
42. Santa Ana, CA 10,376

murders:

1. New York City, NY 11,078
2. Los Angeles, CA 5,874
3. Chicago, IL 5,311
4. Detroit, MI 3,387
5. Houston, TX 2,778
6. Philadelphia, PA 2,643
7. Washington DC 2,611
8. Dallas, TX 2,222
9. New Orleans, LA 2,110
10. Baltimore, MD 1,940
11. St. Louis, MO 1,387
12. Atlanta, GA 1,212
13. San Antonio, TX 1,191
14. Memphis, TN 1,078
15. Phoenix, AZ 995
16. Cleveland, OH 928
17. Oakland, CA 907
18. Milwaukee, WI 898
19. Fort Worth, TX 851
20. Kansas City, MO 808
21. San Diego, CA 785
22. Richmond, VA 738
23. Jacksonville, FL 735
24. Miami, FL 735
25. San Francisco, CA 638
26. Columbus, OH 622
27. Boston, MA 608
28. Charlotte-Mecklenburg, NC 604
29. Las Vegas, NV 595
30. Long Beach, CA 590
31. Newark, NJ 581
32. Oklahoma City, OK 557
33. Nashville, TN 510
34. Indianapolis, IN 499
35. Gary, IN 487
36. Denver, CO 486
37. Jackson, MS 447
38. Compton, CA 445
39. Fresno, CA 441
40. Norfolk, VA 404
41. Buffalo, NY 391
42. Santa Ana, CA 384
43. Minneapolis, MN 372
44. Baton Rouge, LA 367
45. Shreveport, LA 362
46. Sacramento, CA 358
47. San Bernardino, CA 336
48. Seattle, WA 333
49. Rochester, NY 329
50. Tampa, FL 319
51. Pittsburgh, PA 317
52. Little Rock, AR 312
53. Bridgeport, CT 308
54. Flint, MI 306
55. Dayton, OH 303
56. Stockton, CA 290
57. Portland, OR 283
58. Cincinnati, OH 279
59. Albuquerque, NM 275
60. Richmond, CA 273
61. Camden, NJ 271
62. Inglewood, CA 269
63. Louisville, KY 260
64. Tulsa, OK 258
65. El Paso, TX 255
66. Austin, TX 252
67. Mobile, AL 251
68. San Jose, CA 243
69. Tucson, AZ 242
70. Toledo, OH 236
71. Chattanooga, TN 221
72. Pomona, CA 209
73. Savannah, GA 204
74. Wichita, KS 202
75. Honolulu, HI 198
76. Riverside, CA 188
77. Winston-Salem, NC 180
78. Tacoma, WA 179
79. Portsmouth, VA 176
80. Hartford, CT 174
81. New Haven, CT 170
82. Corpus Christi, TX 169
83. Durham, NC 169
84. Greensboro, NC 162
85. Anaheim, CA 162
86. Ft. Lauderdale, FL 160
87. Jersey City, 157
88. Knoxville, TN 152
89. Bakersfield, CA 152
90. Omaha, NE 150
91. Newport News, VA 149
92. Fort Wayne, IN 147
93. Raleigh, NC 143
94. Akron, OH 142
95. St. Paul, MN 139
96. Saginaw, MI 139
97. Virginia Beach, VA 137
98. Waco, TX 136
99. Lynwood, CA 136
100. Providence, RI 134
101. Grand Rapids, MI 133
102. West Palm Beach, FL 130
103. Ontario, CA 129
104. Anchorage, AK 126
105. Beaumont, TX 119
106. Salt Lake City, UT 119
107. Galveston, TX 118
108. Fayetteville, NC 116
109. Columbia, SC 113
110. Laredo, TX 109
111. Amarillo, TX 106
112. Lubbock, TX 104
113. El Monte, CA 104
114. Pasadena, CA 102
115. Colorado Springs, CO 102
116. East Palo Alto, CA 101

[hsw]

Define "safe"

Any major city or suburb has street crime, even in upscale areas; police (and politicians) everywhere are clever about under-reporting crime, and many affluent victims view reporting street crime as a waste of valuable time as crime stats are a silly game anyway

SF and Manhattan are perhaps among safest major cities when comparing upscale areas where people work/live/dine; who really cares about crimes in economically irrelevant parts of any city, i.e., most of SF or Manhattan?

Safety varies by ability to drive self around town vs walking/mass transit/cabs (many who live in PacHts drive self everywhere, as do many in Manhattan's upscale areas)

Feel safer in SF's PacHts or FinDt than in downtown PaloAlto....both are places w/clown cop forces and plenty of nearby poverty/homeless viewing walking affluent as "soft" targets....common sense prevails over absurd pseudo-precise crime stats...

IMO the real risk (and carbon footprint) in street crime (for most law-abiding people) isn't handing over one's wallet or car or being shot dead, but rather facing a bullet that leaves one permanently disabled/paralyzed post-a robbery gone wrong....

[Howest2008]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

San Diego is safe. Portland is safe. Boston is safe. Denver is safe.

But San Francisco?

While it still might be one of the most expensive cities to live in here in the USA, there's a lot of evidence that shows that many crimes occurr right in some of the city's most chic and upscale neighborhoods. This includes tourist areas at night. In addition, many people in this forum seem to point out that San Francisco doesn't feel that safe a lot of the time.

So what do you guys think? Statistics and crime data aside, do you FEEL like San Francisco is a safe city overall? Could you live in SF for years in a nice district area without being assaulted or having your place broken into? Do you have many friends who have been victims of crimes? Or is all this talk blown out of proportion.

I personally have never felt truly unsafe in SF walking around at night in particular, other than the Tenderloin. The only scary incident I can recall was one at the Metreon in SOMA, where this heroin junkie high as a kite kept following me and my friends around, he was in a dream world but kept staring at us vigorously. We walked away and then he trailed behind us, track marks on the arms and all. Eventually we got into the movie theater, but when we came out (2 hours later!) he was standing downstairs claiming he missed us, and if we would please "help" him out so he could buy us some dope. At the point, we notified security. That was the only negative thing I've experienced, and unfortunately, there does seem to be a lot of unstable wierdos on the streets who are most likely harmless but definitely intimidating.

So overall, I've never felt afraid in SF, but I do get shocked by the crime data I see. Why, in such an affluent and overly-gentrified city, is there this much crime? And how bizarre is it that there could be several housing projects within city limits?

Well anyways, let's start a debate and hear your opinions.

San Francisco has never been safe , and will never be a safe city ,
however San Francisco is a great deal safer than Most Big Cities
(Seattle,Denver,Portland,San Diego) run rings around S.F. when it
comes to "Public Safety" And For Everybody Information San Jose is
hands down the only safe city in the San Francisco Bay Area.

[batransplant]

I am surprised how violent the bay area is compared to other cities I've lived in and visited including LA and NYC. It is also very dirty, with lots of crime, homeless, and robberies. We've been victim to more crime here in 2 years (cars broken into 2X in 2 different areas, car keyed, gun pulled on taxi driver) than anywhere else ever.

I am also surprised at the violent crime in Union Square which is a luxury shopping district. After 6PM, it turns into East Oakland, super ghetto, and very scary to walk around. There have even been several murders at the Metreon, which is supposed to be a family friendly destination. There are very few police monitoring the area, and tons of gang-looking people loitering on the street. I am always scared to death to walk back to our car at night, especially if we have shopping bags...and worse when we have our baby with us. We park at the 5th and Mission garage so it is impossible not to walk by all the ghetto and homeless people hanging out on Market, Mission, and 4th St.

I love shopping in Union Square, I just wish they would clean it up and patrol it better. No reason to have all those gang bangers and homeless hanging out in front of Westfield Shopping Center. There are also homeless people who go inside the mall and beg for money. It is pretty outrageous.

They need to clean this area up, and make it safe for people who are actually there to shop, dine, and enjoy the cultural activities with their families. No luxury or upscale shopping areas anywhere else in the world have this problem that I have visited.

[MsRiss7383]

My husband and I spent 5 days in San Francisco. We stayed in the Tenderloin and walked through there every single night. Did I feel uneasy? Yes. Scared or threatened? No. Most of the people there are drug addicts or mentally ill and paid no attention to us as we walked by. We were drunk some of the times and even then I didn't feel that my lowered inhibitions posed a threat. HOWEVER, we then walked one day from the modern art museum to the mission district. I can't remember the name of the street we took but I was terrified! I have no problem with homeless people, mentally ill, etc. but gangs are another story. It was about 40 minutes of sheer terror and nowhere in sight that felt safe.

[bellalunatic]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

San Diego is safe. Portland is safe. Boston is safe. Denver is safe.

But San Francisco?

While it still might be one of the most expensive cities to live in here in the USA, there's a lot of evidence that shows that many crimes occurr right in some of the city's most chic and upscale neighborhoods. This includes tourist areas at night. In addition, many people in this forum seem to point out that San Francisco doesn't feel that safe a lot of the time.

So what do you guys think? Statistics and crime data aside, do you FEEL like San Francisco is a safe city overall? Could you live in SF for years in a nice district area without being assaulted or having your place broken into? Do you have many friends who have been victims of crimes? Or is all this talk blown out of proportion.

I personally have never felt truly unsafe in SF walking around at night in particular, other than the Tenderloin. The only scary incident I can recall was one at the Metreon in SOMA, where this heroin junkie high as a kite kept following me and my friends around, he was in a dream world but kept staring at us vigorously. We walked away and then he trailed behind us, track marks on the arms and all. Eventually we got into the movie theater, but when we came out (2 hours later!) he was standing downstairs claiming he missed us, and if we would please "help" him out so he could buy us some dope. At the point, we notified security. That was the only negative thing I've experienced, and unfortunately, there does seem to be a lot of unstable wierdos on the streets who are most likely harmless but definitely intimidating.

So overall, I've never felt afraid in SF, but I do get shocked by the crime data I see. Why, in such an affluent and overly-gentrified city, is there this much crime? And how bizarre is it that there could be several housing projects within city limits?

Well anyways, let's start a debate and hear your opinions.

I'm sorry but I don't think it is unsafe much at all.

[Tom Jefferson]

You condone felonious activity and then you question your safety?!.........only a liberal........