Surprise: It costs a lot to live here

[Boompa]

Originally Posted by Mach50

I really don't get your argument at all here, so you are pointing to the person and saying they don't live a "frugal" or "urban" lifestyle enough to live in the Bay?

That's all fine but doesn't dispute that things in the Bay are much more expensive.

Shoot if you want to get all crazy: I buy everything on the internet from other states, have a mass mail contract with UPS where I get shipping for a year for $75. I avoid all Bay sales tax and cost on hard goods together... I could buy tennis balls online for .50c a case direct from China.

Good for me, right? Still doesn't dispute that everything is more expensive here.

p.s. I am not complaining, I like where I live, these are just facts.

If you try to live a suburban lifestyle in the city it is expensive. People who live in the city don't drive to the Supermarket and load up on groceries, they by a few things at the Produce Store, Butcher Shop etc or get take away. We are not talking about the BAY, we are talking about IN THE CITY. If I could avoid RENT I could live cheaply in San Francisco.

[City Boy]

What can you do though? Most peoples jobs are in and around the city (Oakland/SF) BART is not cheap, driving is not cheap. Living way out in Antioch or Pittsburgh and commuting every day is expensive. Not to mention the toll it takes on you commuting like that every day. I say Antioch/Pittsburgh because going out that far are the only places that have affordable houses for most people. (300k) for a decent sized home. Which is still a lot of money. Walnut Creek, Burlingame, San Mateo, etc are not exactly cheap places to live so what can you do really? Even the suburbs here would make most people around the country shell shocked.

[clongirl]

Originally Posted by Boompa

If you try to live a suburban lifestyle in the city it is expensive. People who live in the city don't drive to the Supermarket and load up on groceries, they by a few things at the Produce Store, Butcher Shop etc or get take away. We are not talking about the BAY, we are talking about IN THE CITY. If I could avoid RENT I could live cheaply in San Francisco.

People that have families drive. It's the way my family and all the other families in my neighborhood would shop since taking a bus out to Lucky's or Cala wasn't very doable. Sure, we'd occasionally pick up a couple items at the corner store (or even Walgreens for milk).

Also, my 5yr old went to private school several miles away..not possible to put him on a bus or take BART. You're thinking from a very limited view.

Living a "single" lifestyle is not synonymous with living an "urban" lifestyle.

[uptown_urbanist]

Living an urban lifestyle in the city is plenty expensive too, although admittedly trying to live a suburban lifestyle is even more expensive. We couldn't afford to live in SF long-term; maybe we could if we didn't have a kid, or if both of our salaries were much higher, but despite not driving and doing most of our shopping at cheap produce stores and buying clothes at Goodwill (and having no problem going the public school route when the time comes) it's STILL expensive. It's not worth it for me to work, as daycare for little kids is so astronomically high, and in my field the salaries aren't that much higher in SF than they are in less expensive cities. Not having a car and going as cheap as possible on most other things made it possible to afford the higher rents found in the city, but even after factoring in all of that there's really no way to deny that living in San Francisco costs a lot of money, unless you're lucky and bought a place long ago or lucked into a bargain rent, or, if you have kids, maybe have retired family around who can help out with the kids once in awhile and ease up some costs on that front. Even babysitters cost a fortune in San Francisco, so the nights out that were a staple for friends in cheaper parts of the country were an unaffordable luxury for us. Yes, salaries tend to be higher in SF and that helps balance things, but even after factoring all of that in it's still more expensive than most other places, even for those who live frugally and don't drive (or take BART).

We're hoping to buy a place in a city neighborhood in Minneapolis (where our mortgage will be much lower than our rent in San Francisco), and have discovered lots of other former Californians in the city who have done the same thing. If we want to have any retirement savings we simply couldn't afford to stay in SF in the long-run. That's an issue for many SF parents, and at the playgrounds there was always a steady stream of conversation of how long families could hold out and afford to stay in the city.

[uptown_urbanist]

We have a kid and didn't drive, but most SF city parents that I know do have cars. SF also has the most child-unfriendly bus system I've yet encountered in this country, which doesn't help. (the cable cars are great, though!)