How lame is San Jose? (San Francisco, Sacramento: rooftop, living, restaurants)
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Haha, you drew the "downtown has too many thugs" card. No wonder you're happier in Colorado.
When you're young and/or don't care about that element, it doesn't bother you much. Hell, it didn't bother me at all growing up. But when you get older and would rather not be around that atmosphere as much, yeah, it's nice to go to SF, Palo Alto, Mountain View, Los Gatos, and some of the more upscale areas for a nice evening out with the wife, not that you'll completely escape the trouble-makers, but it's not so concentrated. Who knows, maybe SJ has cleaned things up since we left 5 years ago. And it's not like there aren't any thugs in Denver, it's a big city with big city problems too, it just seems to have a better mix of all different types of people downtown - many of them seem to be friendlier than the types we constantly encountered in SJ.
I know you and I have been through this before, but that's just our view of SJ. We spent 30 years there and enjoyed most of it, but weren't always happy with living there once we hit our late 20's. You seem very happy there and that's great. I'm sure plenty of people are. You have your opinion and I have mine. You can say I played whatever card you want, I'll avoid labeling you and making a smart ass comment about where you'll be happy. To me it's not about that. It's about everyone having their own opinion and different perspective based on what they like and where they're at in their life. For us, SJ was fun 15 years ago. We don't have any urge to go back and live there though.
Ludachris, actually, San Jose has done a better job of revitalizing its downtown than Denver as you were just there. Denver has revitalized the Lower Downtown, but what about the rest, except for Pavilions? Larimer Sq. is alot like San Pedro Sq. with some stores. Most of the restaurants are chain restaurants, not much local or unique or even ethnic. Denver is dying for a Safeway and Target in its downtown while San Jose has them in its downtown. There are alot of gaps and dead spots in downtown Denver. Most of the clubs are in areas to the southwest of downtown. When I mentioned the club scene to Denverites, they get jealous and want to party at Dt. SJ clubs.
Don't get it wrong. I like the people of Denver more and their Rocky Mountain, carefree vibe is better than San Jose. I agree with you on that. It's just that I think, from the physical appearance and real vitality, San Jose wins. Never mind the 16th St. Mall since it's only one street and mainly tourists from the nearby states like Nebraska, Montana and New Mexico visits Downtown Denver. There aren't that many locals in Dt. Denver as supposed to Dt. San Jose.
When you're young and/or don't care about that element, it doesn't bother you much. Hell, it didn't bother me at all growing up. But when you get older and would rather not be around that atmosphere as much, yeah, it's nice to go to SF, Palo Alto, Mountain View, Los Gatos, and some of the more upscale areas for a nice evening out with the wife, not that you'll completely escape the trouble-makers, but it's not so concentrated. Who knows, maybe SJ has cleaned things up since we left 5 years ago. And it's not like there aren't any thugs in Denver, it's a big city with big city problems too, it just seems to have a better mix of all different types of people downtown - many of them seem to be friendlier than the types we constantly encountered in SJ.
I know you and I have been through this before, but that's just our view of SJ. We spent 30 years there and enjoyed most of it, but weren't always happy with living there once we hit our late 20's. You seem very happy there and that's great. I'm sure plenty of people are. You have your opinion and I have mine. You can say I played whatever card you want, I'll avoid labeling you and making a smart ass comment about where you'll be happy. To me it's not about that. It's about everyone having their own opinion and different perspective based on what they like and where they're at in their life. For us, SJ was fun 15 years ago. We don't have any urge to go back and live there though.
It's cool if DTSJ is not your thing, but it seems that you define it narrowly and then contrast it to areas that are actually much less broad in scope. I like that there are other places to go in the valley, but it's foolish to think some Main Street in Mountain View is paradise just because it caters to a different clientele. Like I said, it's great that there are options for different people, but I will never agree that downtown is limited to idiots in baggy pants.
Anyway, it's changing and progressing further now with Little Italy, the public market and more dense residential developments. Perhaps club fights won't be the defining characteristic in many eyes come 2015 or so.
Ludachris, actually, San Jose has done a better job of revitalizing its downtown than Denver as you were just there. Denver has revitalized the Lower Downtown, but what about the rest, except for Pavilions? Larimer Sq. is alot like San Pedro Sq. with some stores. Most of the restaurants are chain restaurants, not much local or unique or even ethnic. Denver is dying for a Safeway and Target in its downtown while San Jose has them in its downtown. There are alot of gaps and dead spots in downtown Denver. Most of the clubs are in areas to the southwest of downtown. When I mentioned the club scene to Denverites, they get jealous and want to party at Dt. SJ clubs.
Don't get it wrong. I like the people of Denver more and their Rocky Mountain, carefree vibe is better than San Jose. I agree with you on that. It's just that I think, from the physical appearance and real vitality, San Jose wins. Never mind the 16th St. Mall since it's only one street and mainly tourists from the nearby states like Nebraska, Montana and New Mexico visits Downtown Denver. There aren't that many locals in Dt. Denver as supposed to Dt. San Jose.
Wow, really? There are plenty of clubs/bars in and around Larimer Square, all kinds. It reminds me of a Santana Row with a less pretentious and artificial feel - maybe somewhere in between downtown SJ and Santana Row. There are tons of restaurants in and around that area, like Tamayo and Chop House - or Rodizio Grill, along with plenty of chains too, but you might have to go down to Colfax to find some more ethnic eats (I usually compare Colfax to the old San Carlos area, but bigger). 16th Street is within walking distance, and there are more bars there, but it is more of a mall - actually it's called 16th Street Mall, and has horse drawn carriage rides and free bus rides up and down the street day and night. More of a touristy area, true, but still enjoyable for a nice walk at night with the wife and/or family.
But if you're looking for clubs like the Vault, you'd probably go to the LoDo area. That's not really my scene these days. Larimer Square has some of that mixed in with the lounge atmosphere and bar scene (sort of like Toons and Agenda I guess) spread out across a few square blocks, Larmier Street being the main drag. Maybe you're just thinking of Larimer Street itself? I'm not sure, but even Larimer Street has a ton more than San Pedro, so I'm a little confused. Maybe San Pedro has doubled or tripled in size since I've seen it last. That would make it more like Larimer. You'll get a mix of bar hoppers, club goers, people just getting out of a baseball, basketball, or hockey games, and all types of different folks walking around downtown Denver. It's really diverse, which seemed different from what we were used to in SJ. The only club scene people around here seem to get jealous of in the Bay Area is SF from our experience - at least the ones that have actually been to the Bay Area.
And I have to disagree. I think aesthetically, Denver has a much more beautiful downtown than SJ and is a bit more vibrant. I guess I don't care if there's a Safeway or Target downtown, as I usually either go there for work, evenings out, sporting events (which reminds me of Denver's 4 pro teams), etc. I don't go there for grocery shopping. But I guess that's just me. Different strokes for different folks.
Last edited by Ludachris; 02-22-2011 at 05:13 PM..
It's cool if DTSJ is not your thing, but it seems that you define it narrowly and then contrast it to areas that are actually much less broad in scope. I like that there are other places to go in the valley, but it's foolish to think some Main Street in Mountain View is paradise just because it caters to a different clientele. Like I said, it's great that there are options for different people, but I will never agree that downtown is limited to idiots in baggy pants.
Anyway, it's changing and progressing further now with Little Italy, the public market and more dense residential developments. Perhaps club fights won't be the defining characteristic in many eyes come 2015 or so.
That's the problem though, it seemed to always be tough to escape the club/bar fights in SJ. I hope it finally loses that image some day, but that's what I think of because I experienced it almost all the time. Hell, even the Salsa clubs we enjoyed weren't all that nice later at night. And pretty soon my wife and I started going to other areas to enjoy a nice night out, like Mountain View - which does cater to a different crowd.
All I'm saying is that it would be nice to see downtown SJ be more inviting to those same people who would rather go to Los Gatos or Mountain View. We found that this is what makes Denver so cool. You have all types downtown, it's very diverse. One element doesn't necessarily drive everyone else out. I'll be happy to see SJ progress though. I was born and raised there and it sucked to see what it turned into before we moved away. I really enjoyed going to San Jose Live before it closed down, well before it was full of fights too. It seemed to us that ever since that place closed, downtown SJ in general became less inviting. Hopefully that changes.
Ludachris, I do awknoledge the big 4 teams in and around downtown Denver. Larimer Sq. has mainly shops and small bars and pubs. Most of the clubs are outside the downtown area, mainly on S. Colfax about over 1 mile away. The art scene in Denver is in Santa Fe area, not downtown. In Dt. San Jose, they have excellent First Friday in SoFa district with about 15 galleries(good quality and big) in one area. As for aesthetics, Dt. San Jose is way, way prettier than Dt. Denver, especially around the Fairmont, Cesar Chevas Park, the Circle of Palm and First and Second st. What about Paseo De San Antonio wall that links San Jose State to Tech Museum? The new city hall/library are very pretty.
Bottomline: San Jose has more cohesive downtown and more lively naturally, not artificially only on 16th St. I was in Dt. Denver last Summer. During the day, only 16th st. had pedestrian activity, not anywhere else, not even Larimer Sq. + Lower Downtown. Lower Dt. is dead or just moderate activity even on Weekend nights unless there's a game. I was not impressed.
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