Cost of Living vs. Tech Salaries in Mountain View area (San Jose: sales, real estate)

[Karamia36]

Hello!

I'm hoping to ask for a little bit of help in understanding the cost of living in the SV region--specifically Mountain View. From what I've read in the threads on this forum so far, as well as just piddling around on real estate sites, I have a bit of sticker shock...It's really left me concerned.

My husband is in talks with a large tech giant in Mountain View about a job in front end software development...He's a Senior Software Engineer with about 10 years of experience. If things work out, we would be relocating from Tampa, FL where the cost of living is significantly lower. Here, he works for a defense contractor and pulls about $90K/yr...that's enough for our family of four to live relatively comfortably on just his salary....we own a home (brand new, 4 bedroom/2 car garage), pay no state income tax, etc., so that figure stretches a good deal farther here than I imagine it would in the Silicon Valley.


My question is two-fold:

1. If we moved to Mountain View, what sort of salary would be necessary in order for us to maintain a similar standard of living for ourselves and our children?

2. Is the answer to #1 a salary that a software engineer could reasonably expect to earn in Silicon Valley?




This is my husband's dream job and I know it would be great for his career, but with the cost of living out there I am very concerned that he wouldn't be able to negotiate a salary that would not, in relative terms, be a "paycut". I looked at Bankrate.com's cost of living comparison calculator and these were the results:

Tampa/Metro to San Jose/Metro

$90,000 would need to be $152,024.58.

Percent increase to maintain standard of living: 68.92%.

Cost of Living comparison calculator Cost of Living comparison calculator



Does that sound right?



Thank you again for any insight you may be able to provide---it would be much appreciated!

[Heidi60]

The cost of living in Palo Alto is almost 200% and San Jose 165% of the national average. I would expect a salary of over $100,000. Most of the tech industries are hiring Indian workers by the bus loads and they have a starting pay of over $90,000. But, this area is also prone in to lay offs. Cisco quietly laid off workers and used temps for years to appear stable but as you know, they laid off many just a few months ago. Taxes are high in this area because the tech workers can afford to pay which drives up the cost of housing.

I also saw other posts by someone considering Google so you might want to also read that thread. Many people on CD have asked the same questions regarding living in the Bay area also, it is expensive but beautiful and many are leaving because it is too crowded.

[capoeira]

Originally Posted by Karamia36

Tampa/Metro to San Jose/Metro

$90,000 would need to be $152,024.58.

Percent increase to maintain standard of living: 68.92%.

Cost of Living comparison calculator Cost of Living comparison calculator



Does that sound right

No, because it does not factor in the extreme cost of buying a house. If you are OK with renting a condo it may be accurate but not if you want to purchase a home similar to what you already have. Using the 3 times your annual income equals the house you can afford rule,you will need a 200K per year salary for a minimum 600K Fremont home.

Example: Mountain View home in a good area with good schools:

House example 1

Here are examples of what you can afford on 100K per year, a small house with the worst 1/10 rated schools or a new house with a super long commute.

House example 2

House example 3 (very long commute)

To maintain a similar standard of living with a newer 4 bedroom house it would take at least 225K per year.

Newer 4 bedroom Fremont house with an 18 mile commute to MV:

House example 4

[Karamia36]

Wow, those are some really eye-opening figures. It's hard to imagine that many families can live on a single income in that area...

[hsw]

Put it in perspective....20yo HS dropouts/illiterates who become CHP meter maids w/guns or bus drivers in CA generally are paid >$100K/yr; have fortress-like job security no matter ineptitude and amazing EU-like pensions not found in private sector in US (much of why CA and NYC have amusingly high taxes vs TX)

And 20yo kids who do well at Stanford CS earn ~$200K/yr in their first yr as a software engineer; work 80h/wk for several yrs post-college and quickly climb into >$1MM/yr club if prove selves (pay heavily in stock not cash); and are single, so COL in PaloAlto or SF is trivial vs pay scales of high-achieving engineers

Real question for ambitious in SV is one's confidence in own upward mobility in pay....COL in PaloAlto is damn cheap vs Manhattan or BevHills...but nowhere else on planet has as much upward mobility in pay for truly talented workaholic engineers...but for those with stagnant career paths likely better balance of pay, COL and easy hrs is found in efficient suburban Dallas (or some other back-office town like Austin) than in PaloAlto region

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by hsw

nowhere else on planet has as much upward mobility in pay for truly talented workaholic engineers...

Most people would rather have some sort of "life" rather than this, especially people new to the area who want to enjoy all the amenities that come with living in NorCal.

[spicydreamt]

Karamia36, you can rent (or even own) a 1955 ranch, 1500sqf / 3 bdr in Santa Clara on a $100k salary, with stay-at-home spouse and one toddler. I have two close neighbors in that exact situation. The 150% premium for similar housing stock in Mountain View, or 300% for Palo Alto, shaves off some commute and brings you closer to trendy restaurants - but that cost may not be justified depending on your family priorities.

[Wintermomma]

I'm going to say much more than $152K if you're wanting the "same life" (except, different coast. as in a brand new/newer house, or even a really junky one in a good area. Unless you happen to have several 100s of thousands of dollars in the bank, already, that you wish to put down on one.

I used some of those same calculators (and checking rentals on craigslist or home sales on redfin) and while they were helpful, the COL was still much more than we expected. We're still happy here, but as homeowners coming from a different area adjusting to tenant-life can be somewhat unsettling.

[Nell Plotts]

Your family doesn't need to live in the area forever. You can rent for a couple years then assess your family circumstances. Were I in your shoes and this were my husband's dream job I would figure out how to make it work. When your husband goes for an interview go with him and look at apartments for rent so that the both of you know what to expect.

Don't expect as much living space in your home as you have in your current community. Lots of families thrive in NYC for example.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by Karamia36

Hello!

I'm hoping to ask for a little bit of help in understanding the cost of living in the SV region--specifically Mountain View. From what I've read in the threads on this forum so far, as well as just piddling around on real estate sites, I have a bit of sticker shock...It's really left me concerned.

My husband is in talks with a large tech giant in Mountain View about a job in front end software development...He's a Senior Software Engineer with about 10 years of experience. If things work out, we would be relocating from Tampa, FL where the cost of living is significantly lower. Here, he works for a defense contractor and pulls about $90K/yr...that's enough for our family of four to live relatively comfortably on just his salary....we own a home (brand new, 4 bedroom/2 car garage), pay no state income tax, etc., so that figure stretches a good deal farther here than I imagine it would in the Silicon Valley.


My question is two-fold:

1. If we moved to Mountain View, what sort of salary would be necessary in order for us to maintain a similar standard of living for ourselves and our children?

2. Is the answer to #1 a salary that a software engineer could reasonably expect to earn in Silicon Valley?




This is my husband's dream job and I know it would be great for his career, but with the cost of living out there I am very concerned that he wouldn't be able to negotiate a salary that would not, in relative terms, be a "paycut". I looked at Bankrate.com's cost of living comparison calculator and these were the results:

Tampa/Metro to San Jose/Metro

$90,000 would need to be $152,024.58.

Percent increase to maintain standard of living: 68.92%.

Cost of Living comparison calculator Cost of Living comparison calculator



Does that sound right?



Thank you again for any insight you may be able to provide---it would be much appreciated!

Given your husband's Stats.. If he is is a great engineer working for the right company, with his experience .. He will easily be able to clear $150k .. I'd say, he'd be able to command $200k. That being said, you are going to pay some serious money in federal taxes .. and in income taxes .. sales tax is 8.25%.. if you drive a nice car, look to pay 0.625% .. dont even think about the money from selling your FL house translating to something of value in the valley.. It will at most get you a down payment on less a house here .. So, yes.. you are back to square one and looking at a 30 year mortgage if you are convicted to buy (in Mountain View) .. So, in my opinion.. don't .. If you rent the house in FL, california is going to tax you w/ their income tax on the profit .. So, just be aware of that. Given his income salary, you'd be paying 9.25% income tax on that ...

I was a software engineer in defense 1 year out working in orlando.. and came here .. the pay increase wasn't enough to cover the COL difference .. Right now, a very skilled software engineer out of college can command $100-$120k out of a top tier college.. thus, why I say your husband will be up on the $200k range ..

My solution was to actually bunk up w/ a room-ate .. save like crazy .. spend nothing and translate the extra money to a lower COL area later on in my career .. If your husband does 'front-end' work though ... I can't imagine what this 'dream job' is .. but yes, you will be starting from square one IMO .. back to a 30 year mortgage you are barely grinding through for the equivalent house ...

And yes, you will probably be seeing less of your husband.. As someone stated .. people like to work like dogs here.. It's funny, because if you divide the pay by the hours they work, they are making peanuts ...

O'well... some people love this lifestyle and as a result don't have much a life outside their career.

For some, it's just not for them.