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Old 03-03-2012, 01:05 PM
 
Location: NoVA/DC
84 posts, read 86,757 times
Reputation: 54
Next best thing to gas is induction.
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Old 03-03-2012, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
2,600 posts, read 2,077,496 times
Reputation: 2038
Natural Gas inside a house is at VERY low pressure -- about 1/4 of a pound of pressure or less. That's like a very slow exhale - not enough to blow out a candle. Contrast that with water pressure, which would probably be in the neighborhood of 40 pounds of pressure. Natgas is delivered to the side of your house at very high pressure; the gas company owns a pressure regulator that only allows 1/4 of a pound into your house.

The point is that with such very low pressure, it is a math calculation (not a tough one) to determine the inside diameter of the gas pipe needed to deliver the requisite CFM of nat gas over the length of the pipe run to the appliance based on the appliance's minimum & maximum use.

With certain modern natural gas stoves & ovens, you do not need a vent. Heck, there are even natural gas ventless fireplaces now (I'm looking at one in my family room as I type this). I'm not sure exactly how they work, but I believe there is an oxygen sensor that will shut off the gas if there isn't enough oxy in the mix.

To answer your question, you could look at a nat gas stove you like, and ask to look at the install directions (not the owners manual). Or look it up on the internet/call the vendor. The install directions will tell you the diameter of the gas pipe that you need (and hence the CFM that must be supplied to the stove). Alternatively, the guide will tell you the CFM (or something you can convert into CFM), so someone can calculate the pipe size.

A licensed plumber should be able to do the calcs for you if you can't get at the data, and tell you the pipe diameter required to supply the stove. It is possible that none of the calcs are necessary -- the code may say "must use XXX diameter pipe to deliver gas to a residential stove" where XXX is sufficient for all residential (not commercial) applications. The plumber could also inspect your existing supply, and tell you if he can tap into an existing line to supply the stove -- or if existing lines are too small in diameter to supply the new appliance with the other uses. Remember, 1/4 pound of pressure is very low - Not enough gas to your appliances is a bad thing.

You would also be best asking a question like this at a plumber's forum. I hope I'm not violating city-data's rules if I point you to one such as Plumbing Zone - Professional Plumbers Forum or others where licensed plumbers hang out. Based on their experience you might get an off-the-top-of-their-head answer such as "I do it all the time - unlikely you will have a major issue" or "I've never found a house where the existing nat gas supply line was adequate to tap into; it always requires running a new line" or "by code you have to do XXX" or the like.
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Old 03-03-2012, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
2,600 posts, read 2,077,496 times
Reputation: 2038
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdumbgod View Post
Gas lines are just about the last thing one should consider doing a "Tim the Toolman" job on. Or even a MacGyver.
^^^ +1 ^^^. It should be done by a licensed plumber.

If it were me, I would also get a building permit for two reasons: (1) having an inspector come is not a bad thing - the plumber will know he can't cut obvious corners, and (2) when you go to sell your house, you can state "I haven't had any work done without a building permit."

The building permit will probably cost you at least a hundred bucks, but I would consider it well spent. But that's just me.
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Old 03-03-2012, 05:23 PM
 
2,675 posts, read 1,521,536 times
Reputation: 3652
Quote:
With certain modern natural gas stoves & ovens, you do not need a vent. Heck, there are even natural gas ventless fireplaces now (I'm looking at one in my family room as I type this). I'm not sure exactly how they work, but I believe there is an oxygen sensor that will shut off the gas if there isn't enough oxy in the mix.
Yes there are ventless fireplaces. Problems. The use is to be limited to so much maximum time per day. Have sensors to shut them down, if the oxygen level drops in a room. They use a much lower gas flow rate than a vented gas fireplace, to keep the oxygen from depleting if used very much.

Ranges need to be able to operate as much as needed to cook not maybe have to shut down half way through cooking to keep use below a certain level, or have the range shut down when the oxygen level drops. You can't reduce the gas usage, when you are cooking just to be ventless as it would not produce the heat needed.

Ranges are by code nearly all places be they gas or electric required to have a vent. Some electric stoves skimp by using recirculating vents that have carbon to take out odors, but not gas ranges.

Go to someplace like Lows.com and try to find ventless cooking ranges. Don't have them. A gas range has to be vented outside by some means for safety, and for continuous and unlimited use.
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:24 PM
 
13,114 posts, read 23,395,010 times
Reputation: 7373
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post

The building permit will probably cost you at least a hundred bucks, but I would consider it well spent. But that's just me.
The permit costs for the last job I did like this were over $500.

Three permits were required: Plumbing for the Gas Line, Electrical and Mechanical for the Hood...

I think the cost is now closer to $700.

My city tends to be high... but others are higher.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
2,600 posts, read 2,077,496 times
Reputation: 2038
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Yes there are ventless fireplaces. Problems. The use is to be limited to so much maximum time per day. Have sensors to shut them down, if the oxygen level drops in a room. They use a much lower gas flow rate than a vented gas fireplace, to keep the oxygen from depleting if used very much.

Ranges need to be able to operate as much as needed to cook not maybe have to shut down half way through cooking to keep use below a certain level, or have the range shut down when the oxygen level drops. You can't reduce the gas usage, when you are cooking just to be ventless as it would not produce the heat needed.

Ranges are by code nearly all places be they gas or electric required to have a vent. Some electric stoves skimp by using recirculating vents that have carbon to take out odors, but not gas ranges.

Go to someplace like Lows.com and try to find ventless cooking ranges. Don't have them. A gas range has to be vented outside by some means for safety, and for continuous and unlimited use.

BUT there are many combo units where the cooktop is gas, but the oven/broiler is electric. These don't need the vent, I believe. But I'm not a plumber & don't know the code.
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Old 03-04-2012, 03:22 PM
 
2,675 posts, read 1,521,536 times
Reputation: 3652
The cooktop is the problem in this case. Burners put out a lot of noxious gas fumes. The cooktop is what needs the hood to vent in this case. On top of that, cooking also often needs the vent to eliminate odors, etc., even with electric stoves. The more gas burners, and the higher heat caused by different burners, all have to be taken into consideration when determining the amount of venting required. As pointed out earlier by another poster, a 6 burner commercial range often put in homes, requires larger gas lines and more vent capacity than a 4 burner home range.

As pointed out by another poster with this experience, it required 3 permits to install a gas range. One for the hood alone, to make sure it met requirements for the range.

As to vent free fireplaces, they have killed enough people that California and some other states, several cities like New York City, plus Canada have banned their use. It is not only the gas fumes, but the other things in the gas which is particularly prevalent in the South west that can cause problems to the point:

California Proposition 65 Warning: Fuels used in gas, woodburning or oil fired appliances and the products of combustion of such fuels, contain chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects and other reproductive harm. California Health and Safety Code Sec. 25249.6

By burning these fuels in an un-vented appliance, you are releasing them into the air and are particularly dangerous to small children, the elderly, and anyone with respiratory problems.

NO SCIENTIST IN THE WORLD WOULD EVER CLAIM THAT GAS, OIL, or KEROSENE heaters are capable of burning 100% of the fuel being injected and burned. Raw carbon products are going into the home of anyone with vent-free products.

It the areas banning them spread, it is only a matter of time before they are banned all over the country.
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:33 PM
 
1 posts, read 844 times
Reputation: 10
We just bought a "USED" gas range. We currently have an electric range. We found out that the clearance from the top of the range to the bottom of the overhead cupboard has to be 30". Our cupboard is 23 1/2" with the hood connected under that. My question is: Is there a range hood that would make it possible for us to use this gas range even though our cupboard is lower than ideal???
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