Tech Workers! Who here is unemployed? How long have u been out of work? (park, jobs)

[alexxiz]

Originally Posted by dmode

Not sure about the complaints against H1-B visa holders. Americans have collectively decided that free enterprise is the best system for our society. And thus free enterprise comes with its baggage - the perpetual search for low cost. Low cost just comes easily in the form of labor arbitrage. (although not all H1-B visa holders are due to low cost. A Stanford business school graduate from France will also need H1-B for legal employment). If you have ever tried to sell IT projects to companies you would realize the problem. If you are a service provider and bid an all US based model you would never win a bid. The trick is to have a blended rate with US, offshore and offshore people in onshore staffed project. Who is to blame for this? The IT service providers or the companies who are buying a service due to its low cost?

There's "Outstanding talent" category... if one can't fulfill the requirements, well they can be well-heeled for Stanford....and being from France of course makes them brilliant, but I'd say if they can't pass for "Outstanding talent"--sorry, there're local US people who need to be employed. May be employment in France will be a better option for them at this point. "Stanford Business school graduate from France"... reeks of "raw privilege" and "rich mom and dad"... doesn't mean they are entitled.

[whiterabbit2]

Originally Posted by spicydreamt

Near impossible to get a Rails developer, be it on LinkedIn, Dice, in university posting boards or via recruiters (with or without salary range).

Is it just me, or Rails companies are noticeably uniform with young white male professionals? Even in Silicon Valley, it would be typical for a Rails company to have 80% developers white, and not a single female per 20-50 people. And tons of minority Rails developers somewhere on oDesk, relatively low priced. Like it's not "impossible to get a Rails developer", but "impossible to get another Rails developer like us". I'm an experienced Rails developer, but don't fit the club and totally unemployable (easy to get like 7 companies from a recruiter in one shot, who want to interview, but then the developer team rolls their eyes).

[whiterabbit2]

Originally Posted by Heidi60

Did you see all the job postings on MyVisaJob? Those jobs should be offered to Americans.

Then no jobs in Canada, Mexico, France, Japan etc should be offered to Americans. No foreign investors and company founders should be allowed to come to Silicon Valley. The investor visa ($2 million investment or such) should be abolished, as well as E2 visa that requires to employ American citizens. No American businesses should be allowed to open cheaper factories in China. Etc.

It's just so... socialist to view jobs as a pie given by (the government? God?), where everybody is entitled to have a piece. The pie is small, everybody is poor but equal, make it another Cuba. Why not to make this pie bigger instead?

[spicydreamt]

Originally Posted by whiterabbit2

Is it just me, or Rails companies are noticeably uniform with young white male professionals? Even in Silicon Valley, it would be typical for a Rails company to have 80% developers white, and not a single female per 20-50 people. And tons of minority Rails developers somewhere on oDesk, relatively low priced. Like it's not "impossible to get a Rails developer", but "impossible to get another Rails developer like us". I'm an experienced Rails developer, but don't fit the club and totally unemployable (easy to get like 7 companies from a recruiter in one shot, who want to interview, but then the developer team rolls their eyes).

You certainly did not apply to my opening (San Diego). Believe me, I'd love to have female engineers on staff, I hired two female DBAs (American-born, for the xeno poster above) in the past, fresh out of school and they both not only over-delivered, they eventually went on to work for great companies in engineering management roles. It seems like most Rails developers are content with being mercenaries (your reference to oDesk reinforces that impression), or they have an unwelcome entitlement attitude, or they're simply just happy where they are and maybe there aren't too many of them to begin with.
In any case, this rambling about H1b is narrow-minded. I can cite a counter-example for any statement made in this thread. I've promoted Americans and H1b, and approved the firing of Americans and (yes) H1b. The talent covers the entire spectrum regardless of origin. The sense of entitlement permeating some posts is nauseating, and I've observed that in many cases immigrants, regardless of origin, have less of a chip on the shoulder and know they have to earn their position. Fortunately there are still also some American-born engineers with good work ethics, to keep the place diverse enough.

[dmode]

Originally Posted by alexxiz

but I'd say if they can't pass for "Outstanding talent"--sorry, there're local US people who need to be employed. May be employment in France will be a better option for them at this point. "Stanford Business school graduate from France"... reeks of "raw privilege" and "rich mom and dad"... doesn't mean they are entitled.

I think you display a lot of xenophobia - but here's the problem with your hypothesis. Corporate jobs are not on a "need" basis but on a "can" basis. A construction worker is unemployed and need a job but can that person trade derivatives or calculate net present value or perform cash flow analysis ? This is not the 1950s anymore. Flights are cheap, people travel. Not sure if you are aware, but Americans are everywhere also. Japan has plenty of American expats as does Europe, Middle East and Asian countries. And why not, people need to explore the world, learn about each other and explore each other's culture. It is a good thing. Paranoid and protectionism leads to nothing.

[whiterabbit2]

Originally Posted by spicydreamt

Believe me, I'd love to have female engineers on staff, I hired two female DBAs (American-born, for the xeno poster above) in the past, fresh out of school and they both not only over-delivered, they eventually went on to work for great companies in engineering management roles. It seems like most Rails developers are content with being mercenaries (your reference to oDesk reinforces that impression), or they have an unwelcome entitlement attitude, or they're simply just happy where they are and maybe there aren't too many of them to begin with.

First DBAs, second Junior. The marginalization of female developers starts at Senior level. I mentioned oDesk, as it's cheap labor, and there is still plenty of people there not being able to find anything better. Not finding developers is bs.

I'm really not happy investing time into Rails. The community is a bunch of immature me-me-me personalities with entitlement attitude, not caring about quality, customers and employer, or anything else beyond themselves. On a top of it, the framework is a magic wand and nobody has to be a good developer to use it (me having experience with other languages, including Ruby), I can teach my cat how to generate a web site using Rails within 30 seconds.

[spicydreamt]

whiterabbit2, I'm unsure why you decry the ease of use of a platform that helps keep costs down and focus on both business requirements and customer experience. Isn't the point of enterprise technology to be efficient yet self-effacing, omnipresent yet transparent? You may well end up with a Cheshire cat!
Meanwhile, best of luck in your future endeavors... maybe focus on becoming that good developer and directly apply to jobs on linkedin, instead of wasting time on oDesk and on a "community," whichever that is...

[Heidi60]

Originally Posted by spicydreamt

whiterabbit2, I'm unsure why you decry the ease of use of a platform that helps keep costs down and focus on both business requirements and customer experience. Isn't the point of enterprise technology to be efficient yet self-effacing, omnipresent yet transparent? You may well end up with a Cheshire cat!
Meanwhile, best of luck in your future endeavors... maybe focus on becoming that good developer and directly apply to jobs on linkedin, instead of wasting time on oDesk and on a "community," whichever that is...

Did you read the prior posts? This country needs jobs and workers who understand our culture and language, not importing workers whose loyalty might last until the next paycheck. Which business requirements and customer experience are you talking about, American or china? Does enterprise technology limit itself to non-Americans with the entitlement attitude? You are either part of the problem or part of the solution.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by Heidi60

not importing workers whose loyalty might last until the next paycheck.

Not sure "loyalty" is a hallmark of in-demand workers in the tech world. Kind of sad, really, but down here in SV, it's dog-eat-dog, and loyalty goes as far as the issuer of the next paycheck. Not exactly the old Ford vs. Chevy ethic.

[spicydreamt]

Heidi60, I was somewhat taken aback by your post's virulence, but here goes:
"Did you read the prior posts?" => Yes.
"This country needs jobs and workers who understand our culture and language, not importing workers whose loyalty might last until the next paycheck." => I've observed no more loyalty in American-born workers.
"Which business requirements and customer experience are you talking about, American or china?" => Neither. The *company*'s business requirements to grow and be profitable, and *its customer*'s experience to limit turnover. Since we're discussing on the San Jose forum, I'm referring to local companies.
"Does enterprise technology limit itself to non-Americans with the entitlement attitude?" => I have no idea what you mean here since this seems rhetorical, but obviously the answer is no (and again I've observed the entitlement attitude in non-immigrants at least equally if not more).
"You are either part of the problem or part of the solution." => As often as not, a person with the solution has been a past contributor to or observer of the problem as well. If you're asking (and I'm reading between the lines here) whom I choose to hire and promote, my answer is: the best fit for the opening regardless of the country of origin. Anything else would be doing both the company and the qualified applicant a disservice, and... nurture the culture of entitlement for the undeserving, which means (when the best applicant isn't a American citizen) doing your part in reducing the economy's output, in xenophobia's name.
Look, of all the resumes I've received by e-mail for my most recent posting, not a single one was from an American-born (based off the school names). Whining out loud does not a job secure.