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Old 01-14-2013, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Upper East, NY
1,144 posts, read 1,174,695 times
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> but also a diverse student body? Interacting with peers of varied persuasions prepares kids for the real world as well as any curriculum.

That's an interesting and common theory. Have you ever heard of an employer asking a sweet little tyke when he applies for a job how diverse his high school was?
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:15 AM
 
15 posts, read 11,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdumbgod View Post
It sounds like we're talking about two places with thoroughly homogeneous student populations. Wouldn't we rather choose a school that features not only high performance and arts, but also a diverse student body? Interacting with peers of varied persuasions prepares kids for the real world as well as any curriculum.
You cannot prepare the kid for everything in the world. With schools, you prepare them for what is YOUR idea of what environment they should be in when they graduate. If your idea for them to work in artistic field, attending schools with strong math academics is not the best choice. If you want them to work in say farming industry in central valley, diversity in tech subjects wont help much either. If you want them to be part of Silicon Valley tech industry, - how do you think that industry be diverse when your kid grows up? Where do you think all these bright math trained non diverse kids will go after graduating from their non diverse schools? Thats the reality of schooling, like one of previous posters said, you in essence are choosing for your child the environment in which they will grow up and learn to live in. Looking at tech industry now, for example, the trend for it to be less diverse, especially when you add immigration from the overseas with often much better schooling than US, and that schooling is not diverse at all, just very strong academically in tech subjects.

And thats why I feel that public schools are better than private, because public schools reflect the population that your kids live in, so you get the complete package in terms of classmate values reflecting the values of your neighborhood friends.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Upper East, NY
1,144 posts, read 1,174,695 times
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Diversity is such a wonderful thing - too bad you can't buy it in a neat little package in the store.

In exchange for diversity, you also give your child a less rigorous learning environment, teaching to the mean or to the slowest, a pile of classmates who don't know better about how to reach for ambition, and far less preparation for the next level- be that the next level of education or the work environment.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:29 PM
 
1,026 posts, read 1,379,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crescent22 View Post
Diversity is such a wonderful thing - too bad you can't buy it in a neat little package in the store.

In exchange for diversity, you also give your child a less rigorous learning environment, teaching to the mean or to the slowest, a pile of classmates who don't know better about how to reach for ambition, and far less preparation for the next level- be that the next level of education or the work environment.
Depends on the type of diversity. Here in the Silicon Valley, diversity typically means lots of Asians and Indians. These kids have parents working in the tech industry. They generally are very high achievers academically. The issues with this are twofold:

1. Often time, they are too extremely competitive. While its great to have academic rigor, the extremes put so much pressure on kids that it may cause depression. This is what caused the rash of suicides a couple years ago at Gunn High School in Palo Alto (a very highly rated public school).
2. Also, in these cultures, they tend to value academic achievements above all else. If your kid is in this environment, I have no doubt that their math/science/engineering skills will be second to none. However, I am not clear if this is the best environment for development of soft skills, which are critical for success in one's career.

On the other end of the spectrum, if you are in east San Jose, diversity means lots of Hispanics. These kids are generally lower performing academically. In this situation, you are correct that teaching to the mean would not prepare the students well academically. This is another reason why this location is considered less desirable and the lower housing prices there reflect this.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Upper East, NY
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This board thrives because one can come for a general sense on an issue one isn't up to speed on. There are always extremes and examples against the 'rule'.

Gunn is an example of an extreme that wouldnt do the rule justice.

East SJ, though, is a lot bigger and not an extreme.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:11 PM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
7,228 posts, read 5,741,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANIM View Post
You cannot prepare the kid for everything in the world. With schools, you prepare them for what is YOUR idea of what environment they should be in when they graduate. If your idea for them to work in artistic field, attending schools with strong math academics is not the best choice. If you want them to work in say farming industry in central valley, diversity in tech subjects wont help much either. If you want them to be part of Silicon Valley tech industry, - how do you think that industry be diverse when your kid grows up? Where do you think all these bright math trained non diverse kids will go after graduating from their non diverse schools? Thats the reality of schooling, like one of previous posters said, you in essence are choosing for your child the environment in which they will grow up and learn to live in. Looking at tech industry now, for example, the trend for it to be less diverse, especially when you add immigration from the overseas with often much better schooling than US, and that schooling is not diverse at all, just very strong academically in tech subjects.

And thats why I feel that public schools are better than private, because public schools reflect the population that your kids live in, so you get the complete package in terms of classmate values reflecting the values of your neighborhood friends.
Yes, part of the package includes not only where Junior goes to school, but who he's hanging out with in the neighborhood. We have a rash of parents in SV that increasingly are trying to program their kids like machines for the sole purpose of landing the highest-paid job in the most competitive tech fields. This tunnel-visioned approach doesn't work for every kid, and can easily backfire if/when said kid actually goes outside (!) and encounters a world that consists of things other than formulas, stats, equations, ones/zeros, and calculations. Besides, employers are decrying the dearth of creative skills graduating students are bringing to the workforce. Making a kid go to school with robots in the hope he himself becomes another robot does not a well-rounded child make. Not a very content, happy one, either.

Turning out ultrageeks isn't necessarily the best means of preparing kids for the demands of today's employment marketplace. They're not little adults or computers, anyway. They're human children. Quit the programming.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:08 PM
 
15 posts, read 11,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdumbgod View Post
It sounds like we're talking about two places with thoroughly homogeneous student populations. Wouldn't we rather choose a school that features not only high performance and arts, but also a diverse student body? Interacting with peers of varied persuasions prepares kids for the real world as well as any curriculum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdumbgod View Post
Yes, part of the package includes not only where Junior goes to school, but who he's hanging out with in the neighborhood. We have a rash of parents in SV that increasingly are trying to program their kids like machines for the sole purpose of landing the highest-paid job in the most competitive tech fields. This tunnel-visioned approach doesn't work for every kid, and can easily backfire if/when said kid actually goes outside (!) and encounters a world that consists of things other than formulas, stats, equations, ones/zeros, and calculations. Besides, employers are decrying the dearth of creative skills graduating students are bringing to the workforce. Making a kid go to school with robots in the hope he himself becomes another robot does not a well-rounded child make. Not a very content, happy one, either.

Turning out ultrageeks isn't necessarily the best means of preparing kids for the demands of today's employment marketplace. They're not little adults or computers, anyway. They're human children. Quit the programming.
Where in my post did it say that this is the best means of preparing the kids for demands of today marketplace? Marketplace is much more diverse than math and computer science, as you rightly pointed out. What I was trying to say is that you as a parent have a responsibility of picking the environment where your kid grows up and this is one of the most influential thing you as a parent can do.

If tech industry of Silicon Valley is your cup of tea and you want your kid to thrive in it, be prepared to face math and science kids from these non diverse school. So schooling in PA/Cupertino is a best choice for you. If this is not your cup of tea, other schools are obviously better options. Silicon Valley IS (at least has been for the past few decades) a place for tech inclined minds, so top schools just reflect that reality.

I wish people stop complaining about kids from these schools being robots and not prepared for the realities of life. They are just prepared for the different kind of environment that you consider the best, thats all
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
2,606 posts, read 2,081,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by never-more View Post
It seems like that should have given you a reason to have your child return to the public system (cause it's free). And yet you didn't. Why was that?
Unfortunately, kids don't come with instruction manuals. As parents, most all of us have common goals for schools & our children - we want good schools, safe schools, environments where they can flouish, etc etc. We try to find a school environment that matches up well with our kids.

At the end of the day, Harker felt like much more of a "fit" and public school seemed more like "one size fits all." Yeah, it is expensive, but we were OK with that.

Your mileage may vary.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:48 PM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
7,228 posts, read 5,741,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANIM View Post

I wish people stop complaining about kids from these schools being robots and not prepared for the realities of life. They are just prepared for the different kind of environment that you consider the best, thats all
An incredibly narrow, isolated kind of environment. Jamming nothing but math down a kid's throat might result in one that can rebuild your computer, but can't tie his own shoe or successfully cross the street, or be able to engage in conversation. Or always be that guy in the room who has no idea what anybody's talking about. Would be kind of embarrassing if one is mistaken for having Asperger's when it's not the case.

There are plenty of kids out here on the West coast who ran away from homes where their overbearing parents were trying to force them into a certain career that they wanted no part of, and that kind of rebellion is increasing with 2nd generation immigrant kids who are realizing there is more available to them than lives of blind obedience. The Gunn High episode highlights this frustration. The homogeneous cutthroat environment so many tech parents want their kids in only adds to this, and it isn't right for everybody. And children shouldn't be seen as little clones of their parents. They're unique individuals. Otherwise, yeah, they're virtually programmed robots.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Upper East, NY
1,144 posts, read 1,174,695 times
Reputation: 519
I want my kids to compete against your kids, bigdumbgod
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