Why isn't downtown San Jose better? (San Francisco, Fresno: school, living, shopping mall)

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by sonarrat

It is racial, because the people living in what folks call a "ghetto" will always be Latino or Black. I don't know too many Asian-heavy areas that people would characterize as a ghetto, though some might point to parts of Evergreen.

Ghetto in the west refers to low-class (crass, lowbrow, unsophisticated), and not in the economic or necessarily racial sense, though it all too often is used to stigmatize blacks or Latinos. But white or yellow people have shown as much propensity to be ghetto as anybody else, throughout the Bay Area.

That said, when queries as to why downtown San Jose gets invaded by the ghetto element at night, it's invariably a reference to the folks from East San Jose, taking advantage of the old tradition of cruising Santa Clara St. at night, some of whom tend to get rowdy if they figure they can get away with mayhem in the streets without consequence. A greater SJPD foot patrol presence around the area of 1st/Santa Clara would help ameliorate the brazeness of this would-be outlaw faction. As long as they don't resort to the old "beat down first, ask questions later" sort of ethic.

[never-more]

Originally Posted by sonarrat

It is racial, because the people living in what folks call a "ghetto" will always be Latino or Black. I don't know too many Asian-heavy areas that people would characterize as a ghetto, though some might point to parts of Evergreen.

What's interesting about the class situation of most Asians in San Jose is that their rather evenly distributed across the Silicon Valley economic spectrum, and no matter which economic level class you look at, upper, upper-middle, middle, or working, you'll find them in large groups in each class.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by never-more

What's interesting about the class situation of most Asians in San Jose is that their rather evenly distributed across the Silicon Valley economic spectrum, and no matter which economic level class you look at, upper, upper-middle, middle, or working, you'll find them in large groups in each class.

Quite true. It's sort of like bunching "Californians" or even "Americans" into one identifiable class. Lazy stuff.

[Mariarox76]

I agree there are more ghetto "mexicans/blacks" in the San Jose area, but I've met plenty of white and Asian people who act ghetto too. Anyone no matter what race can be ghetto.. Parts of San Jose are just primarily mexican.. *east side*
Honestly, I hardly ever see a black person, not being rude but they don't live where I am.. I'm surrounded by Asian and Indians and they pretty much keep to themselves and their race.. At least where I live.. Cupertino Area

[foo cities]

If you want a lively and downtown, and the downtown that is a real deal: Seattle, SF, Portland, Denver, Chi, NY, Boston, Indianapolis, San Diego, LA and Minneapolis. Why stay in this city if it doesn't have a vibrant downtown with good quality of living. I've never been to San Jose, but by reading these blogs, it sounds like a horrible city that I must avoid.

[foo cities]

Originally Posted by bsyde82

My only plausible guess is that Santana Row killed any chance of downtown becoming a dining/retail destination.

thoughts?

Based on cities with vibrant downtown and vibrant shopping mall and neighborhood district:

Portland- downtown is lively with Loyd Shopping and dining only a mile and Pearl District, which is on fire, is next to downtown.


Boston- a lively downtown with Back Bay and the North end only a mile from each other.

Seattle- lots of mall within a five mile radias of downtown. Bellevue is 8 miles from downtown and Ballard is only less than 5 miles. What about Capitol Hill and First Hill. They're smokin'! Downtown is still very vibrant.

San Diego- Fashion Valley and Old town are awsome spots, a place to be seen, but downtown still bustling.

Denver- a very vibrant downtown that is close to a very vibrant shopping mall/district(Cherry Creek) and lots of malls within 5 miles of downtown

Los Angeles- we all know about LA having so many sub districts that are happening, but downtown is now hot and vibrant.

*The excuse that another mall or shopping district like Santana Row hurting downtown in nonsense. What may have killed of your downtown and keeping it from waking up are the people in your area and their taste. If they like a suburban lifestyle and defend sprawl vigorously, a revived downtown is not going to happen. It's just a fantasy.

[foo cities]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Well this is the United States, at least 9 out of every 10 Metro areas, downtowns are not the center of activity, San Jose is not all alone in this aspect.

That's not true. A whole bunch of downtowns are revitalizing and becoming a real deal. It's just a collection of some mediocre cities that haven't like as follows: Phoenix, Fresno, Houston, Dallas and Tuscon. Now, they're anomaly, not the norm..

[jbunniii]

Originally Posted by foo cities

Los Angeles- we all know about LA having so many sub districts that are happening, but downtown is now hot and vibrant.

*The excuse that another mall or shopping district like Santana Row hurting downtown in nonsense. What may have killed of your downtown and keeping it from waking up are the people in your area and their taste. If they like a suburban lifestyle and defend sprawl vigorously, a revived downtown is not going to happen. It's just a fantasy.

Downtown LA's renaissance has been within the past 10-15 years, and that is certainly a city which likes its suburban sprawl. No reason San Jose can't do the same, if it chooses to do so.

[never-more]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

Quite true. It's sort of like bunching "Californians" or even "Americans" into one identifiable class. Lazy stuff.

In my honest opinion, it is still bunching all the Asians into one race, as their the most diverse race of all in America with the many national and for some sub-national groups. Based on my everyday encounters, I tend to see Chinese, some Indians, and Japanese ethnic people belong to the upper end of the spectrum, with Filipino, Vietnamese, other Indians, and Hmongs taking the middle to lower end. Again lots of exceptions of course, but this is the general case. You can't really say the same for Whites, Blacks, and Hispanics, who tend to lean towards one end of the bell curve or the other and have homogenous culture.

[Carlite]

It's worth remembering that San Jose is actually quite a new city. In 1940, San Jose had a population of only 68,000, less than Berkeley, let alone San Francisco or Oakland. Even in 1950, it was less than 100,000. A city that small generated something of a downtown, but not a huge one. San Jose has grown up largely in the suburbanizing decades, when growth was moving centrifugally away from city centers. Most of the cities which have strong downtown transit hubs (rail and/or bus) developed them before World War 2.

If it's true that the clubs in downtown San Jose cater to, ah, lower income customers, that's as much a symptom of the downtown's weakness as a cause. Not that clubs are the only form of business, Downtown Oakland has made a lot of hay (and New York Times coverage) out of restaurants.