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Unread 02-09-2013, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
23,672 posts, read 28,303,580 times
Reputation: 10042
Quote:
Originally Posted by foo cities View Post
That's not true. A whole bunch of downtowns are revitalizing and becoming a real deal. It's just a collection of some mediocre cities that haven't like as follows: Phoenix, Fresno, Houston, Dallas and Tuscon. Now, they're anomaly, not the norm..
A whole bunch of cities are trying but few cities are more vibrant in Downtown than in the surrounding areas when it comes to shopping, employment, dining and entertainment. There is still a long way to go.

And San Jose has actually done a lot to revitalize its downtown--but it would be very difficult for any downtown to compete with Santana Row/Valley Fair being so nearby, people naturally gravitate there Im thinking.

Also, doesnt DT SJ have a pretty vibrant nightlife relatively speaking?
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Unread 02-09-2013, 08:05 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,293 posts, read 4,375,482 times
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In the 1950's, downtown San Jose was thriving and functional. I remember it. My mother took me to the butcher shop (Nance, who gave me free cheese or a raw hot dog) . . . There was Hale's and Hart's, etc. My doctors were downtown. There were subways (underground street crossings).

Then Valley Fair was constructed and people abandoned downtown. Suburbs were considered cool, if you can imagine, and downtown was "old school."
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Unread 02-10-2013, 09:27 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
4,157 posts, read 2,769,900 times
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I actually think that DTSJ is very underrated.
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Unread 02-10-2013, 12:43 PM
 
630 posts, read 323,530 times
Reputation: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
A whole bunch of cities are trying but few cities are more vibrant in Downtown than in the surrounding areas when it comes to shopping, employment, dining and entertainment. There is still a long way to go.

And San Jose has actually done a lot to revitalize its downtown--but it would be very difficult for any downtown to compete with Santana Row/Valley Fair being so nearby, people naturally gravitate there Im thinking.

Also, doesnt DT SJ have a pretty vibrant nightlife relatively speaking?
Look at Portland, you got the huge Loyd Shopping mall and a cool district right across the river from downtown. Downtown still thrives. The same goes for Downtown Denver when you have one of the nation's most successful shopping district, Cherry Creak, only 2 miles from downtown. As far as nightlife is concerned, I've never been to San Jose. I'm only getting the lack of downtown scene from the bloggers in City Data and others. Therefore, it's possible for a downtown to go toe to toe with a place like Santana Row/Valley and win just like Portland, Denver, Seattle, Boston and others.
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Unread 02-10-2013, 12:47 PM
 
630 posts, read 323,530 times
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Look at Canadian cities: Vancouver and Toronto have very active and competitive suburban scene, but their downtowns still magnets. They still have very strong and vibrant downtowns despite a lot of cool surrounding suburban communities.
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Unread 02-10-2013, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
2,429 posts, read 1,364,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariarox76 View Post
I agree there are more ghetto "mexicans/blacks" in the San Jose area, but I've met plenty of white and Asian people who act ghetto too. Anyone no matter what race can be ghetto.. Parts of San Jose are just primarily mexican.. *east side*
Honestly, I hardly ever see a black person, not being rude but they don't live where I am.. I'm surrounded by Asian and Indians and they pretty much keep to themselves and their race.. At least where I live.. Cupertino Area
I would really like it if we can discourage the use of the word "ghetto" to describe tacky or lowbrow behavior, dress or tastes because it's pretty hard to get away with it without stigmatizing certain ethnic groups in a stereotypical manner, though I agree with you that a person of any ethnic background can act in that way that you can deem unacceptable or low brow.
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Unread 02-10-2013, 06:24 PM
 
12,740 posts, read 9,705,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdumbgod View Post
Ghetto in the west refers to low-class (crass, lowbrow, unsophisticated), and not in the economic or necessarily racial sense, though it all too often is used to stigmatize blacks or Latinos. But white or yellow people have shown as much propensity to be ghetto as anybody else, throughout the Bay Area.

That said, when queries as to why downtown San Jose gets invaded by the ghetto element at night, it's invariably a reference to the folks from East San Jose, taking advantage of the old tradition of cruising Santa Clara St. at night, some of whom tend to get rowdy if they figure they can get away with mayhem in the streets without consequence. A greater SJPD foot patrol presence around the area of 1st/Santa Clara would help ameliorate the brazeness of this would-be outlaw faction. As long as they don't resort to the old "beat down first, ask questions later" sort of ethic.
Agreed on all points. Of course, they don't have enough cops to do the foot patrols, and that's partly the cops' fault for making unreasonable demands on the city for pay and benefits....but that's another thread.
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Unread 02-10-2013, 10:42 PM
 
1,015 posts, read 557,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foo cities View Post
Look at Portland, you got the huge Loyd Shopping mall and a cool district right across the river from downtown. Downtown still thrives. The same goes for Downtown Denver when you have one of the nation's most successful shopping district, Cherry Creak, only 2 miles from downtown. As far as nightlife is concerned, I've never been to San Jose. I'm only getting the lack of downtown scene from the bloggers in City Data and others. Therefore, it's possible for a downtown to go toe to toe with a place like Santana Row/Valley and win just like Portland, Denver, Seattle, Boston and others.
The cities you mention all have large, longstanding downtowns that predated their suburban competitors. Boston has the oldest subway in America, Seattle and Portland have done outstanding jobs in developing transit service to their downtowns. Downtown San Jose was presumably stronger in the 50's and 60's than now, but it just didn't have the base to build on that these cities, let alone Toronto or Vancouver did.

It's hard to find good comparables for San Jose, since it's in a multi-city region. I've never been to Fort Worth, so maybe it's not a good comparable, but it's a city of over 750,000 in a region with two leading cities. Is Fort Worth that much livelier than San Jose?
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Unread 02-11-2013, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Liminal Space
401 posts, read 210,381 times
Reputation: 503
The fact is that San Jose was a very small city all the way up until the period of mass car ownership in US history (1950s onward). It has grown tenfold from 100k to 1m entirely based on that form of transportation. Compare that to San Francisco which was 775k in 1950 and 805k in 2010. Practically the entire city was built based on the assumption that people would be getting around without cars.

There aren't any examples in the US of a large city with a strong downtown that saw most of its growth after 1950.
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Unread 02-11-2013, 02:21 PM
 
630 posts, read 323,530 times
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I take it that San Jose didn't do a good job of revitalizing its downtown. To have a vibrant downtown requires two things: a change in pattern of people prefering living their lives in the suburbs and lots of highrises. Density and good transportation are the way out of downtown doldrums, look at NY, Toronto and Seattle. Couldn't San Jose been smart enough to know this?
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