Making it on minimum wage in San Jose. (Santa Rosa, Berkeley: 2013, apartment)

[aslowdodge]

this would be an interesting blog to follow if you do it.

[llowllevellowll]

To the OP,

I admire your determination and your planning, and I think your goal is worthy of an attempt. I moved to California right after college with a degree, albeit a worthless one (history, arabic studies) and I didn't attend grad school. The only thing I had going for me was the fact that I had a little web design gig I started in college that paid a small monthly stipend and included full health insurance. Outside of that, it sounds like we had somewhat similar beginnings. The meager stipend helped make ends meet but didn't go far and I often worked part time since I didn't need full-time pay to cover expenses because of the aforementioned gig.

I went through a few different careers with varying degrees of success and failure. From meaningless jobs to real estate to hospitality management, which is where I ended up winding up, despite the fact that I always told myself I'd go to grad school and become the teacher I always considered being.

My one life observation is this: it's the unexpected that is going to determine your future. I like that you have a plan, but don't underestimate the value of hard work and experience and when you start getting into something, it might just be the right thing for you.

2.5 years after I took my first hotel position (for some reason, I had the desire to try it just for fun while I was selling real estate on the side), I've moved up and elected to make it a permanent career. Maybe one day I'll go be that teacher I always dreamed of, but for now, I'm really content and pleased with my decisions financially. I think you'll also find your niche and it might be unexpected. Work hard, challenge yourself, and enjoy what you're doing and you'll succeed regardless of your locale.

[JoeSV]

has talked about the limited availability of entry level tech jobs and home affordability

PhoenixSomeday and Nagleepark,

I've read much about San Jose's sky-high housing costs, both buying and renting; since I'm nowhere near ready to "settle down" I'm not too concerned about that


.......but what I've also read indicated that it's also has a wealth of tech jobs, maybe the most concentrated tech jobs in the country. Surely a good chunk of those will be entry-level positions...........right?

Can you tell me a little about your observations/experiences regarding entry-level tech jobs?

[JoeSV]

Parti Rhinoceros(cool name!),

It's "uncool" to admit it, but I do have a fair share of apprehension moving half-a continent away to where I know nobody and starting from the bottom(now we here)(hat-tip if you catch the reference, lol). So thanks for the heartening story; much needed in the face of the steady drumroll of negative news: recession, education funding cuts, job losses.

Not that I'm knocking a realistic assessment of the actual economic landscape, but optimism, backed up by hard work and (from my experience) prayer, is a priceless commodity.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Ceece

The biggest problem is that most minimum wage "hamburger flipper" jobs will NOT be full time. And where would the time/money for schooling come from?

I'm not saying it can't be done, anything CAN be done, but most people who do what you suggest in a super high COL area have a support system in place consisting of family, friends, contacts... and some money.

^^This...^^

And I also take issue with that $70 per month in transportation figure. If you mean a bike and a bus pass, then yes, you can do that on $70 a month...but not if you own a car.

[JoeSV]

^^, Yeah, I'll be biking and bus pass. $50-$70 per month. No insurance, no gas, no maintenance.

Also, there are guaranteed low-interest(3.8%)(a good chunk of it at 0% interest) federally-backed student loans.

I want to minimize loans as much as possible, but I could theoretically fund all of my living and tuition expenses strictly through low-interest loans with easy and very affordable repayment options and multiple deferments post-graduation as well as free Pell grants, Cal grants, and then, not have to work a W-2 at all. Instead, I can do income-generating activities on my own time/pace(small business, tutoring, etc.)

That's another option, but I've never had a loan and I hate debt with a passion, so that will be a secondary fallback option if my Plan A doesn't bear fruit.

Thoughts?

[bobby_guz_man]

JoeSV,

On your other threads, we have suggested for you local schools in Texas and then head to Austin for work. Is there a reason why you do not like that suggestion? Or do you just want to be here?

Also, some of us have suggested that you look into other areas near Bay Area, but far enough away to enable cheaper housing. Places such as Fresno is possible, or near Chico State, or areas near Cal Poly.

And what about the area around Monterey? Monterey and Pacific Grove is expensive, but cities around it (Sand City, Marina, Seaside) can be found with cheaper rents. You do have a few community colleges such as Monterey Peninsula College where you can get enough credits, settle in, and then transfer up to SJSU or Cal Poly. You will only be an hour drive away from San Jose, and Monterey area can easily be biked around or bused around. Greyhound has buses to go from Monterey to San Jose. This is a place you can also give some thoughts too.

[JoeSV]

Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man

JoeSV,

On your other threads, we have suggested for you local schools in Texas and then head to Austin for work. Is there a reason why you do not like that suggestion? Or do you just want to be here?

For many reasons, but the main one :

-Opportunity(education, internship, jobs, career) in SJ > anywhere in Texas(including Austin). That's what it boils down to. If I was a art/history/prelaw/premed/accounting/business major, I would not move to SJ(or California). The opportunity-cost would simply not be worth it. I would do what you suggested, finish school locally, get a few years of experience, and then, if I wanted, make the move to California. Or Washington state. Or Oregon. I like the West Coast in general.

But I'm a comp-sci major with a goal of a career in the tech industry.

I looked at both Washington state and Oregon. They do have a much lower cost of living, but less opportunity. The good comp.sci schools there are either (relatively) expensive(UW), take longer time to graduate due to strict rules(UW), or located somewhere remote or small-town'ish(WSU, OSU, OU).

Another factor: tuition is much more cheaper in California than in Texas. Or Washington state. Or Oregon. Then there is the BOG waivers which makes community college almost free. Add to that transfer scholarships and Cal grants, and even from a financial perspective, you come out ahead in "HIGH COL" San Jose.

Other reasons that are secondary, but also have weight:

- year-round fair weather & outdoor activities
- Pacific ocean and the bay
- mountains
- a more open-minded populace

So for a person with my set of goals, anyway you shake it, San Jose comes out ahead......unless my calculations and research are way-off. Are they?

So given all that, the real question is: Why stay in Texas? No good reason I can see except comfort-zone inertia.

Also, some of us have suggested that you look into other areas near Bay Area, but far enough away to enable cheaper housing. Places such as Fresno is possible, or near Chico State, or areas near Cal Poly.

I looked into that too and found that the housing(rental) costs difference ranges from 100 to 200, on average. So is it worth $200/month savings to move somewhere far away with not-that-decent public transit infrastructure, when I can be living within a bus-ride of SJSU, Santa Clara U, SJCC?

I'm looking at this from a hard-nosed pragmatic perspective. It just makes sense to live close to or within an area within short distance of: schools, jobs, internships and that has decent public transit. Large metro areas have the population density necessary to make all those things possible.

And what about the area around Monterey? Monterey and Pacific Grove is expensive, but cities around it (Sand City, Marina, Seaside) can be found with cheaper rents. You do have a few community colleges such as Monterey Peninsula College where you can get enough credits, settle in, and then transfer up to SJSU or Cal Poly. You will only be an hour drive away from San Jose, and Monterey area can easily be biked around or bused around. Greyhound has buses to go from Monterey to San Jose. This is a place you can also give some thoughts too

Thanks, wasn't aware of that area, and will research it too. But my preference is still with large metro areas for the reasons mentioned above.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by JoeSV

But for the sake of argument, let's assume worst case scenario, minimum wage job @ $8.00/hr.

8*40*4 = $1200

Plenty of rooms in downtown SJ on Craigslist renting at $600-$700
phone bill: 50/month
transportation: 70/month
food: $180/month

Total = $1000, leaving you $200 to play with, save or spend.

You are underestimating everything. For one thing, shared utilities will easily ad another $50 on to that $700 room. You are only budgeting $6 per day for food. Thats like one $5 footlong at Subway, and nothing else. You are forgetting about taxes, and miscellaneous expenses, clothing, etc.

You will not have any $200 to play with. You would probably actually end up coming up short.

[nagleepark]

Originally Posted by JoeSV

PhoenixSomeday and Nagleepark,

I've read much about San Jose's sky-high housing costs, both buying and renting; since I'm nowhere near ready to "settle down" I'm not too concerned about that

.......but what I've also read indicated that it's also has a wealth of tech jobs, maybe the most concentrated tech jobs in the country. Surely a good chunk of those will be entry-level positions...........right?

Can you tell me a little about your observations/experiences regarding entry-level tech jobs?

PhoenixSomeday is the real deal; he's actually seeking an entry level tech job. If he posts sometime in 2013, "I got a job!", that'd be a good indication that entry level tech jobs are available. If, however, in 2014, he posts, "Still no job yet," that'd be a pretty bad sign.

I'm a senior engineer. My knowledge is second-hand from a cross-section of younger engineers, older engineers, people who do other jobs in tech, observations my employer's recent hiring and various media. I'm not on the front lines.

I feel that the media is very misleading: they regularly overhype the employment situation. I also see (or think I see) a big chicken-and-egg where many jobs require experience but relatively few jobs don't require experience and are willing to provide experience.

I think that the Silicon Valley is biggest concentration of tech jobs on the planet. I think that there are tons of great jobs here. But I think lots of those jobs aren't available to entry level engineers.