Why is this board so discouraging? (San Diego, San Jose: debt, income, rent)

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by texasdreamin

I think the one reason crime is so low is because the cost of living is so high. The criminals can't afford to live here...so they move on to other cities. For us...that is a good thing.

I've often thought that very same thing

[dreamofmonterey]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

San Jose is definitely expensive. Overcrowded mostly because of poor planning and a lack of good mass transit.

In general, the good things about California are really good (weather, geography). But the bad things about it are really bad (high cost of living, crowding, state politics, natural disasters).

San Jose has its good points. Low crime rate. Great weather most of the year (although can be a bit chilly and rainy in winter, but never unbearably cold). San Jose & surrounding cities are generally well managed (unlike San Francisco and Oakland to the north which are corrupt and poorly run).
There are lots of fun outdoor activities in this area.

Bad things about San Jose: It's rather dull for a large city. It is also sort of "foreign" as you say (as is the Bay Area in general). That is both good and bad. There doesn't seem to be a lot of racial/ethnic strife here. But there are a lot of immigrants whose lives revolve around their immediate & extended families, so sometimes they are nice but hard to 'click' with outside a workplace setting because their lifestyles are not typical of how native born Americans live.

Also, there are a lot of people here whose lives revolve around their jobs/careers...so something to be aware of.

I think one thing you need to be careful of----It's easy to say "I just want to move somewhere for a few years & if I don't like it, I can just move somewhere else". But I think you'll find that the older you get, the harder it is to pick up and move. I thought the same way you did when I was 25. I'm 37 now and I see things differently. So, if I were you, I'd pick a place to live where I thought I could put down roots long term. I concur with what RomaninSF said--the novelty of living in this area will wear off after a few years.

I also agree with you that Californians are more open to tryng new things. That can be good and bad as we often do stupid things. But we're not locked into the "We have to do it this way because that's how we've always done it" mindset as a lot of Easterners are. (I grew up back East so I know what you're talking about).

So I'm not saying don't move here...just think very carefully. The down side of living here often isn't apparent to single 25 year olds without kids. Fast forward 5 or 10 years, and you sometimes have a 30 or 35 year old with a kid or two who's stuck in the California rat race and can't quicky or easily move somewhere else.

As I read this, what strikes me though- native born Americans dont always click well either. We moved to Appalachia- people have lived here for 10 generations, but there is no city, no infrastructure, It is a city, with a mall, and 55 Baptist churches. JMO.

[sc101]

Hi Thundersnow,

At risk of sounding like one of the "negative people" you've met, these are my thoughts as a 14+ years residents in Cupertino area. Please consider these:

1. According to mortgage loan, $7000 a month income or below qualifies for low income loan here. That says a lot about the standard of living I think. The average one bed room apartment here costs about $1400 to $1700 month. After taxes, food, rent, gas and other normal entertainment expense, you're probably looking at a few hundred dollars savings every month.

2. Average income here is $100K, most families are dual income couple with average household income of $210K. Not well-off, the average folks. They would be either living in a $1800-2200 a month very old and small 2 bedroom apartment, or if able to afford $200K-300K downpayment, in a $5000-$7000 a month 1300 hundred square feet run down old house built in 1970.

3. Yes it's beautiful and sunny with great ourdoor activites, but most people I know spend so much time on their career and making ends meet with high cost of living, that you will be in a survival mode on a daily basis, even when you're moutain biking.

4. If you listen to people who was lucky to be here long time ago, bought/inherited house for good price, they are more laid back and therefore has different perspective. Most folks relocate from other states/country just like yourself for career opportunities, and I suspect because on the surface the salary seems so much higher. Everyone has a different definition of "friendlyness." Due to the survival mode, you also will not know your neighbours, much less than a sense of community. Traffic is horendous, and most people feel too stressful. Due to overworking and lack of time for social activities, most people also feel lonely and lack of friends.

I run my own business with a few employees, don't have a family, after all expense take home about $130K but still feel very poor. When I have a family I will think about relocating to other places with more down-to-earth, small town, simple and laid back towns where most people value family life and community more than materialistic things.

[thundersnow]

sc101,

If I didn't know any better, based on some of your posts on this board, it seems you are trying to keep people from moving to the area. Nonetheless, I appreciate the warnings.

1. The average cost for a one bedroom there isn't much higher than here in the DC area. I have also seen numerous folks on craigslist looking for roommates and asking no more than I pay now ($800 a month) for reasonably sized rooms in newer apartments and condos in good neighborhoods. I certainly wouldn't hold any hope of buying a condo or home if I moved to the area, but I imagine I can keep my rental expenses in a range not too far from what I'm used to.

2. Give me some time, I'm only 25 :-)

3-4. Work/life balance is what you make of it. It's the same way here in the DC metro area. Everyone is career driven and competitive in all aspects of life. The traffic, too, is horrendous. I live in a condo building, I don't know my neighbors, in fact, I have only even seen them once or twice in the 18 months I've been here. People are generally concerned about themselves, you barely get a hello, if even a glance, in the hallway. Just today someone in my parking garage gave me the finger because I honked at him as he came around a tight corner, headed straight for my stopped and waiting car, as he looked off to the right somewhere paying no attention in front of him. I honked to keep him from running his costly BMW into my little Mazda and somehow I get the finger, imagine that. The people there can't be any worst than they are here.

I don't expect to put down roots in the bay area, but who knows. If it were up to me, I'd move to some little town in the mountains of Colorado or perhaps New England. But alas, near the big cities are where the jobs are, so until I find a career that allows flexibility or start my own company, in the overcrowded areas I shall remain. But at least I have the chance to experience a new part of the country, grow in my career and perhaps spend some weekends exploring the wonderful California outdoors, whether it be Big Sur or Tahoe, surely I'll find the time.

Thanks.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey

As I read this, what strikes me though- native born Americans dont always click well either. We moved to Appalachia- people have lived here for 10 generations, but there is no city, no infrastructure, It is a city, with a mall, and 55 Baptist churches. JMO.

Yes, good point.

[mysticaltyger]

Thundersnow:

I agree with most of what SC 101 says. However, I'd say most people don't even earn 100K here. Maybe a family with 2 earners makes more than 100K on average, but certainly not close to 200K.

However, the cost of rent here is doable if you plan on having roommates and paying $800 a month. You could probably pay less than that and still live decently (as long as you have roommates...it's going to be almost impossible to find your own apartment for $800 a month--not even a studio).

As SC101 said, life here is very career driven and not terribly community oriented. In many respects that is the same as it is in DC. People are probably somewhat more polite on the surface than in DC, but the rat race way of life remains.

As for you only being 25. I know that it seems like the "sky's the limit" and "all things are possible" now. That's just a normal way to think when you're 25.

Maybe you'll be one of the top 10% of people who live here in the Valley who loves his job and makes a great income...but remember, there are a lot of smart and talented people here, so being in that group is difficult to say the least....and a lot of people in the high income group are workaholics.

I would also say that the downsides of living in this area (hyper-comptetitive, overly career focused) wear you down over time. That is something you can't imagine at age 25, but believe me, it happens.

I don't make anywhere near 130K as SC101 does. But I'm not surprised he feels sorta poor. There's a huge gap between the haves and have nots here...and the natural human tendency is to compare yourself to the guy who has more than you....so it's really easy to feel poor here even if you have an above average income, as there are quite a few people who are multi-millionaires and even some billionaires living in this area.

[worktolive]

Originally Posted by thundersnow

Honestly, the advice on this board toward potential residents seems to be overwhelmingly negative, while I'm sure it's honest feedback, it's hampered some of my initial enthusiasm about the move.

Ignore all those negative people. I moved here when I was 25 and it was absolutely the best decision I ever made. Given our exorbitant housing prices, why is it that there is such demand to live here? Hmm, could it be because this is one of the greatest places in the world to live?

This is the time in your life when you can take a chance so just do it. Don't let that negative energy weigh you down. The worst that can happen is that you decide it's not for you and you leave in a few years. So many people sit around moaning about how they wish they'd taken a chance on something when they were younger. Don't let that be you!

[Charles]

Originally Posted by worktolive

could it be because this is one of the greatest places in the world to live?

When did you buy your house?
Where did you buy your house?
Where (not specifically, what district for example) do your kids go to school?

[Bob The Builder]

Thunder

I was born in the Bay Area. I moved to Italy 4 years ago to raise my young family. However, I will return my family to the US at some point in the next few years. I can live anywhere in world I choose, but I would not consider moving to SJ, but that is because I chose to have my kids grow up with a different value set than they would get back there.

That being said, I would encourage you to go. You are 25. You have the curiosity, lack of commitments, opportunity. I would however get a roommate otherwise you will take forever to acclimate. Sitting all holed up in your one bedroom apartment is not all that conducive to experiencing the Bay Area. Good luck.

[eureka1]

Concur with the last poster- you're young, go for it. Just don't be surprised by the smog, congestion and prices.