Software engineering/programming jobs in SV: how good do you need to be? (Fremont: rent)

[df175]

I'm out of state and keep getting more and more recruiter contacts for positions in SV with non-blue-chip companies.

While I'd expect the likes of Google and Apple to have intensely high interviewing bars, do you think that more "average" companies in SV also only hire so-called elite programmers; or is the demand vs. supply of programmers such that being "solid and competent" is adequate?

The way some of these recruiters talk, it's like every company in SV only hires the top 5% (or some arbitrary X%) of programmers in world, by some fanciful metric.

Where would you say the hype vs. reality stands in SV? On the one hand, so many of these companies publicly say they cannot find qualified people but their recruiters simultaneously indicate that their "technical bar" is brutal at the white board, and "few" make the cut.

[ccm123]

I would say that different companies have different requirements and the Google's of the world have the highest expectations and toughest interview processes. Google and the other top tier technology companies also have a lot of applicants, so they are the most thorough, challenging and difficult in their interviewing processes in order to "weed out" candidates.

Being solid and competent will get you a position in SV. It may or may not be a top tier (since there is really no relative measurement that can measure all the skills of programmers) company. If you know your stuff well, you will get hired in the Valley.

Lot of my colleagues who graduated from less than top tier schools have gotten programming jobs in the Valley.

[ggcd951]

i dont think it is that hi-bar. I lived in seattle, austin before and now in SV. I went through couple interviews and did not notice bar being "high" compared to other tech areas mentioned above. However, bay area is getting through insane housing boom and both rent and buying is becoming out of reach. even for someone like me getting six figure income, i can not get decent condo. Forget about house. rent in sfo averages 3k$ decent house tops 1 million.
So unless you move here and mix with other budget strained hi-techies competing on scarce housing inventory (add to the mix the cash yielding investors from china), I would stay out of SV.

[ilkhd2]

Northern part of the bay, essentialy BART-accesible suburbs of SF (Walnut Creek, Concord etc, or even Fremont) are somewhat cheaper than SV, so to work in SF in live Walnut Creek would be a better deal then work and liver in Mountain View.

Speaking of expectations - yes they are higher, but the workload is even more high. However, even with high cost of living, if you are truly good engineer (and able to make > 110k/y), you'll be better off then somewhere in Midwest with 65-70k

[ccm123]

Correct, the salaries, benefits and perks are good at SV companies, but you will have to compete for scarce housing with other high paid professionals. Most of your income will be consumed by the housing and COL costs here.

[branh0913]

Originally Posted by df175

I'm out of state and keep getting more and more recruiter contacts for positions in SV with non-blue-chip companies.

While I'd expect the likes of Google and Apple to have intensely high interviewing bars, do you think that more "average" companies in SV also only hire so-called elite programmers; or is the demand vs. supply of programmers such that being "solid and competent" is adequate?

The way some of these recruiters talk, it's like every company in SV only hires the top 5% (or some arbitrary X%) of programmers in world, by some fanciful metric.

Where would you say the hype vs. reality stands in SV? On the one hand, so many of these companies publicly say they cannot find qualified people but their recruiters simultaneously indicate that their "technical bar" is brutal at the white board, and "few" make the cut.

Unless you're going to be working at Google and be a top developer on their new cloud platform, creating new data structures, etc, I doubt you need to be in the top 5%. Such jobs aren't even 5% of the jobs in the IT market. But it depends on the company you want to get with.

With that said, the bar may be a little higher just based on the type of companies that are here. Many of them are basically service providers in some way, have revenues that depends on internet advertisement (google), offer hardware or consumer products (Apple), or IT solutions for companies (HP, VMWARE). With that in mind, being more innovative will generally get you jobs here, and as a result some of the hiring managers may a bit more brutal in their screening. It's the primary reason why Silicon Valley is considered the most competitive market. You're likely to be working at the company providing the solutions that other companies use. So the bar is going to be high.

With that said, the real question is SV worth the effort? And the answer to that depends on your end game. Do you want to stay here, have kids, raise a family, and buy a house? In that case, shooting for a staff position at Google, Facebook, Apple, etc are most definitely going to be a concern. However if you want to just come here, get some experience to put on your resume, and move to another market with your highly prized Silicon Valley experience, then the market may be easier to enter. My end game is the latter than the former. I make 6 figures, but my salary gets gobbled by transportation and rent. I've lived and competed in markets that are cheaper, which still offer the same salary as Silicon Valley. But my end game isn't to retire in Silicon Valley, it's to get the experience.

Anyway, I'm rambling. But basically I would aim for a contract position with any of the tech giants. Try to stay in there a few years. Possibly upgrade to a staff position, if that suits you. But you need to really LOVE Northern California and the Bay if you choose to do that. And I mean I really feel you have to not just like this place, you have to be in love with it. Things are unapologetic ally overpriced here, any place that's reasonable is generally very FAR from the Valley, and you don't exactly get the best bang for your buck. I actually like Silicon Valley much more than I liked Seattle, but I know I'm not in love with this place. I personally know I could live better in Dallas or Houston and get pretty much the same salary. But I know that Silicon Valley looks great on my resume so here I am.

If you plan to spend the next few years working on your career, then definitely try whatever you need to do to get out here. Again, best place to start are contract positions. I work with one of the huge tech giants here, and I'm just a contractor. But my interview wasn't extremely hard either. They never even asked me to meet them face to face before I started.

So again, depends on your end game. Remember a lot of these companies exist for a reason. most of them provide solutions to Banking, financial, telecom, and other industry companies. You can pretty much easily get with those companies after working in SV. And I would say many of the big giants in Silicon Valley are some of the few companies doing a lot of the new stuff that will be essential skills in the market a few years from now. Hadoop/HBASE anyone?

Good luck.