Software Engineering in Silicon Valley (San Jose, Sunnyvale: relocation, insurance, budget)

[aurelius_enzo]

Hello,

I'm around 50 with a wife and four daughters ages 1 to 15. Nevertheless, in May I graduated Summa C_m Laude from a flagship state university with dual B.S. degrees in mathematics and computer science. In fact, I had a 4.0 GPA and was the valedictorian of the engineering college (800 students).

Prior to this last stint in school (5 years) I was a database development consultant (4 years), a programmer (3 years), a paralegal (5 years) and an electronics technician (9 years).

I would like to work as a software engineer writing actual software (as opposed to just keeping IT systems running) but the state where I live has only a very small software industry. Moreover, local developers I know are not particularly ambitious. They don't seem to work more than 40 hours and companies local don't expect it either. I'm bored, need more challenge and would like to realize more of my potential.

I interviewed in June for a well-known Internet company in Mountain View. I liked to area fine but I didn't get the job. I'm would not be looking to buy a house right off but would probably need at least 4 bedrooms and 1800 sq. ft.

I'd like to know if any software engineers on this board would have any advice for me. In particular: what's the best way to network for software engineering opportunities? Should I expect help with relocation? Would my wife need to work (she's currently a stay-at-home mom)? Should I play up or play down my recent academic success on the resume? Another way to phrase this question would be: should I go for an entry job because I just graduated or not? Are there any networking sites/boards and are particularly good for software developers?

Thanks in advance.

[Alexus]

I suspect that your age might be a problem. The companies here have an abundance of young, well-educated Indian and Asian talent to pull from for software engineering tasks. Many have graduate degrees. Outsourcing is utilized extensively here. You could check out craigslist.com and put some ads in the classified section stating briefly what your qualifications are and what type of position you're looking for. You could keep changing and tailoring these ads until you get some promising responses. Monster.com seems to be a popular job board. At your age, it is expected that you are either an Engineering Manager with a wealth of experience managing software projects, personnel, and budgets or you are a Principal Engineer or Architect who has technically overseen many projects over the full lifecycle and/or been the Chief Architect of many successful software products or systems.

Because of your age, you might want to consider using your technical background to go into an area that values age such as Law. If you can write well, you may find more luck finding work as a Patent Engineer. You can take the Patent Bar exam to become a Patent Agent and this can be pretty lucrative. Consider this.

About homes, one of the homes I own is in Sunnyvale. It's a 4 bedroom, 2 bath ranch, 1800 sq ft that is currently valued at 1.3M. Rent would range from $2700-3400 because of the good school district. The quality of the school district is critical here. If you're in a good one, you can send your kids to public schools. If a not-so-good, you may feel that private school is better. This is expensive. Santa Clara is cheaper, so are most parts of San Jose, Campbell. Cupertino is more expensive. So is Los Gatos, Los Altos, Mountain View, and Palo Alto.

I also think you should tailor your resume for the jobs you want. Some ads ask for knowledge that your education may speak to better than your experience. Have a resume for this ad that emphasizes your education. Other ads may scream for something you've done while working. Tailor your resume to emphasize your experience to speak to that ad. For all ads, tailor a resume whose objective is precisely what the ad calls for. Dont make the mistake of sending a "form" resume.

Hope this helps.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by aurelius_enzo

Would my wife need to work (she's currently a stay-at-home mom)?

General questions: Do you think you are resigned to live in the expensive bay area to work? With four girls (I share the pain brother, I have four girls too...) and their school interests, and your living space needs, could you find work elsewhere that is more affordable? (I did.) I know the bay area is excellent for those types of jobs but are there other options?

More specific questions:

What is your rent budget?
What is you commuting-in-traffic comfort zone in minutes?
Where (geographically) do you live and work now?

[aurelius_enzo]

Thanks for the responses.

I'm not resigned to the Bay Area per se, but I do want to live in an area with a large and vibrant software industry. This means a critical mass of companies producing software as a product. Other requirements are a great university in the area, progressive politics and a warmer climate with outdoor rec opportunities.

We are currently in Vermont, which is awesome but lacks a software industry. We are also considering Seattle, Boston and a few other locales.

We hope our rent budget for the Valley would be in the $2000 to $2400 range initially. Regarding the rent versus commuting time trade-off, I want to live in the Valley. I wouldn't want to live in Tracy or Gilroy or someplace (but Santa Cruz might be OK). I'm assuming my income would settle at over $100k. So I suppose we would consider more rent if necessary.

[jhlcomp]

We have a tech company in Florida and we do a lot of work in California (go figure) around Sunnyvale. I can tell you first hand that the likelihood of getting a job in software and specifically as a programmar and/or SW engineer in the United States is slim.

Factor in California where the talent is young, hungry, well educated, tech savvy, leaves anyone of a specific age group (BTW we share the same age range) almost dead in the water. I am not saying you won't find work - I am saying that it will be one heck of a challenge and you need to be able to beat the socks off of your younger competition.

RomaninSF gave you excellent information.

[aurelius_enzo]

Thanks for the posts; it's all good information.

Are there any comments from people who went to Silicon Valley and succeeded as a software engineer?

[kdog]

I've been watching this thread from the sidelines, and refrained from commenting. But since you kind of spoke directly to me...

I got transferred to Silicon Valley back in the early 80's by a big east coast company that needed a west coast presence. After they folded, I worked as an independent consultant, and also joined a variety of startups, most of which were short lived. In fact, I'm still working with some of the contacts I made in Silicon Valley, but from Arizona for the time being. Silicon Valley has been very good to me.

Silicon Valley is anything you want it to be. It's still the new frontier, and there's as much startup activity happening today as ever. If you want a piece of the action, I say go for it. Everybody is unique, and there's a spot for everyone who wants to work hard -- even us old farts. But you've got to work at it. This business about competing with cheap immigrant labor and recent college grads -- that never slowed me down. Your academic skills and your maturity are valuable in the right capacity. How are your interpersonal skills? People hire people they like.

You mentioned applying to one networking company, and getting turned down. Very good. Now try applying to 50 companies. It's like dating, somewhere out there is the girl for you. If you're going to let one rejection slow you down, then you've already lost the battle. Be prepared to be flexible. You may have to start at a position that's beneath you to get your foot in the door. Once inside, you use your wit to parlay that position into the job you really want. After another year or two of that, you might need to join a different company to get compensated for the job you're now performing. That's the way the game is played.

Um, what else do you want to know?

[Alexus]

Originally Posted by kdog

I've been watching this thread from the sidelines, and refrained from commenting. But since you kind of spoke directly to me...

I got transferred to Silicon Valley back in the early 80's by a big east coast company that needed a west coast presence. After they folded, I worked as an independent consultant, and also joined a variety of startups, most of which were short lived. In fact, I'm still working with some of the contacts I made in Silicon Valley, but from Arizona for the time being. Silicon Valley has been very good to me.

Silicon Valley is anything you want it to be. It's still the new frontier, and there's as much startup activity happening today as ever. If you want a piece of the action, I say go for it. Everybody is unique, and there's a spot for everyone who wants to work hard -- even us old farts. But you've got to work at it. This business about competing with cheap immigrant labor and recent college grads -- that never slowed me down. Your academic skills and your maturity are valuable in the right capacity. How are your interpersonal skills? People hire people they like.

You mentioned applying to one networking company, and getting turned down. Very good. Now try applying to 50 companies. It's like dating, somewhere out there is the girl for you. If you're going to let one rejection slow you down, then you've already lost the battle. Be prepared to be flexible. You may have to start at a position that's beneath you to get your foot in the door. Once inside, you use your wit to parlay that position into the job you really want. After another year or two of that, you might need to join a different company to get compensated for the job you're now performing. That's the way the game is played.

Um, what else do you want to know?

How would you compare the engineering culture in SV with back east? More energetic? Better for team players? Livelier? More intense? More fun?

Thanks.

[aurelius_enzo]

One thing that seems certain is that the east is more focused on corporate "IT" rather than any business model where software is on the revenue side.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by RomanInSF

How would you compare the engineering culture in SV with back east? More energetic? Better for team players? Livelier? More intense? More fun?
Thanks.

I think that individual companies define their own engineering cultures more so than which coast they're on. For example the software engineering department of an insurance company is going to have a different culture than the engineering department at a startup. Which one is more fun, is up to the individual. Personally I think startups are more fun and energetic than large companies, however both teamwork and individualism can be found at either. Some people hate the uncertainty and lack of structure of a startup, while other people thrive on it. Livelier and more intense? Those adjectives seem more applicable of startups than larger established companies. There are plenty of startup-companies on the east coast, not only in the Boston area, but in DC and Atlanta as well. But I think that SV probably has more startups per capita than anywhere else in the world. That made the area more appealing for me, and I'm glad I switched. But to the original point, comparing apples to apples, the culture of comparably-sized and similarly focused engineering teams are the same no matter where they're located.