NYC MANHATTAN to SAN JOSE (are we nutz?) (San Francisco, Fremont: sales, apartments)

[NY2Cali]

My wife and I are both in are midish 30's with no kids as of yet, and looking for a change in life, weather, jobs, etc. We currently live about 5 long blocks away from the Empire State building in midtown Manhattan and are a very urban couple who enjoy the city life, especially the plethora of restaurants and awesome (often inexpensive) food, and diversity of different neighborhoods and activities that NYC and the surrounding area has to offer. We live pretty small here (a 1bdrm apt) and pay $1,500 for rent - again, a bargin for NYC - but we are due for a change before we grow old. The thing is we really don't like suburbia much. Too be honest neither one of us are too fond of SF but are considering San Jose, I'm thinking SJ might seem like a large NJ town to me compared to Manhattan and that might 'suk'?

Since we rent here it's not like we have any equity to bring to the Bay area so it's likely we'll have to rent but can do it 'small' for a while. Hey, we are used to the small NYC living I was shocked as the absolute sh*thole homes you get for 750k out there, but I suppose NYC condos are no better - but at least here you get to live in the greatest city on earth. I figure conservatively in the bay area that we'll have a household income of at least 130k, me sales and her graphic design.

Because I work in sales and will more than likely need to travel all over the Bay area - Is the traffic really that bad?? ( how about compared to the NYC metro area? Because it's BAAAADDD here, sometimes taking 1 hour just to cross the 0.7 miles accross Manhattan to leave and go to NJ! -and don't forget the 6 dollar toll to get back in and $325 monthly parking fees!).

Would really love to hear from anyone that has experience living in Manhattan/NYC for a comparison and people who HAVE NOT lived in the Bay Area their whole lives since I really don't care what San Jose 'used to be' and 'how much it's gone downhill' I only care about 'what it is' now and what areas might be experiencing gentrification, positive growth, and renaissance. We don't mind gritty with character, and prefer that over cookie cutter homes and strip malls but need something 'liveable' and 'affordable'. Do you think a fairly urban and not easily entertained NYC couple like us would like the San Jose - South Bay Area?

Opionions and suggestions are welcome!

THANKS!

[J-Lu]

Hi There,

What is it that you don't like about SF? Because SF is a much better comparison to NYC than SJ is. I am one of those people who grew up in San Jose, but I have to say that they have drastically improved downtown in the past 10 years. Before then, people rarely would go to downtown, as it offered very little. They've added many restaurants, clubs, hip hang out places, built the SJ arena (where the Sharks play), and it has a much better vibe now. You'll find a good mix of ethnicity in terms of people, culture, food, etc. But SJ has always been considered somewhat of a stepchild to SF. And coming from NYC, it will be a big downsizing for you, as the downtown area is relatively small. As for Traffic, it is bad in the Bay Area, and you don't have nearly the quality of public transportation as NYC. San Jose does have a light rail system as well as a train (Cal Train) that can take you up the Peninsula. The nearest BART station is in Fremont, I believe. It doesn't come all the way to SJ. Besides downtown, SJ has a few quaint neighborhoods (Willow Glen, Campbell), but the rest would probably be classified as your typical suburban sprawl. Also, great weather year round. Anyhow, that's my 2 cents.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by J-Lu

But SJ has always been considered somewhat of a stepchild to SF.

LOL... that is totally true! Even though San Jose has a larger population, it's never been as vibrant or exciting as San Francisco. Not to mention, it doesn't have a fraction of the beautiful sights (does it really have any??).

Since you don't want a native's opinion... I'm originally from the D.C. area (moved here at age 7), and my dad was born & raised in Brooklyn. I still have friends and relatives in/around NYC, and visit fairly often. That being said, San Jose is a fine city compared to some, but it's nothing in comparison to NYC, SF, and other really big cities. There isn't even close to the amount of culture, activities, people, etc., but it does have everything you'll need. It's quite spread out though, and in my opinion it also has kind of a suburban feel. I currently live about 15 miles north of SJ, and only go there for school (recently finished grad school @ SJSU), or for specific reasons - i.e. to see a concert/show at HP Pavilion, or to go shopping. They do have a fabulous mall called Westfield-Valley Faire, where I go crazy a few times a year ; there's also the newly built "Santana Row", which is a really nice & upscale shopping street.

Another positive is that housing in San Jose is slightly cheaper than SF & NYC, and more readily available. I've been looking to move, and have researched rentals all over the Bay Area... as someone with a dog, I'm only able to find 1-3 units TOTAL in San Francisco (within my price range), whereas San Jose offers at least 15-20. Traffic is also a bit lighter in San Jose, but most of the Bay Area is pretty awful at rush hour. Certain areas are worse than others, but there's always a chance of sitting for an hour or more... and I think the tolls are now $4 for the Bay Bridge, $5 for the Golden Gate, and $3 for San Mateo & Dumbarton. As the other post mentioned, we have crappy public transportation, especially in the South Bay and Peninsula. BART doesn't go this far south, and CalTrain is okay, but very limited in where it stops. Anyway, to make a long story short, yes the traffic is bad!

Now to answer your main question, I do think you'll experience some "culture shock" in San Jose, and will probably miss everything NYC has to offer. But it's a nice place to live overall, and after some adjustment you could be perfectly happy. Plus, the weather is definitely better out here! With the income you mentioned, it should be possible to rent or buy something decent, especially around San Jose. If it's not too suburban for your taste, you might consider the outlying towns of Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, Mountain View, or Campbell... they're all pretty safe, and a tad cheaper than most of the South Bay/Peninsula. Of those, Mountain View has the most character and charm, while the others are strip-mall suburbia types. And if you can afford it, Los Gatos and Saratoga are very nice and unique towns. Good luck in whatever you decide, and feel free to ask more questions!

[gizmo980]

Now that you have me thinking about New York, I'm realizing that you'll probably miss the amazing food. We have some good cuisine, especially Asian and Mexican restaurants, but it's nowhere near NYC. As a Jewish woman, I especially envy the REAL delicatessens you have... the few "delis" here really suck, and we can't even find a decent bagel!

[NY2Cali]

Thanks so much 'J-Lu & Gizmo980' for your candid replies and useful information. Right now we are pretty set on a move but must decide between your area and LA. - Most of the posters here are just whinning about housing costs, but they haven't lived in Manhattan where you can get a crappy 400ft studio for nearly 2k a month with little or no view of anything. The thing about NYC is that there are bargins to be found but you need a lot of luck to find one - for example I had a friend that was paying 98.00$ a month for a 1 bedroom in chinatown - sure he had to shower in his kitchen but it was a steal. There are weird stories like that in Manhattan.... some paying $$$$$ and some paying $ for almost the same thing...

Honestly it's going to be hard leaving here but we're ready to try some fresh air / mountains / beaches and a slower pace at least for a while.

As for the bagels - i live 10 blocks from Essa Bagel - the fattest doughiest - freshest and always warm bagels that you can sink your teeth into - Jewish owned and operated - of course...


thanks again!

[NY2Cali]

I was recently encouraged to look into the San Mateo area.... any thoughts on this area folks?

Thanks!

[cdrobert]

San Jose is the Smog Angeles of Northern California. As a Californian(ironically like 50% of the citizens a transplant as well) i feel a sense of duty to tell you to stay in New York we already have to many east coasters out here. Now with that being said, if you have to choose take san mateo county over santa clara. The pennisula has much more culture to offer you as does san fran, the south bay is an ackward sprawl of upper middle class whites and asians, and the barrios where the mexicans who do service work live.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by NY2Cali

As for the bagels - i live 10 blocks from Essa Bagel - the fattest doughiest - freshest and always warm bagels that you can sink your teeth into - Jewish owned and operated - of course...


thanks again!

I'm jealous now!! Every time I go to NYC, one of the first stops is Carnegie or Stage Deli... I'll have to check out that bagel place on the next trip!

Regarding the rest of your post, I know SF is nothing when compared to prices in parts of NYC. But like you said, I also know people who've found really cheap places! The problem with the Bay Area, is that "cheap" is an unknown word, especially when you're purchasing... even a house in Hunter's Point (SF's worst neighborhood) will probably cost you over $400K. My place actually isn't bad - $900/mo. for a 2 bedroom - but I live in a horrible neighborhood with weekly shootings. Anyway, I know you won't suffer much sticker-shock, so I'll stop whining about the costs.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by NY2Cali

I was recently encouraged to look into the San Mateo area.... any thoughts on this area folks?

Thanks!

I actually grew up in San Mateo, living there from age 7-18 (1983-1994), and my parents had the house until 1997. We lived in the area known as "San Mateo Park", which borders the towns of Burlingame and Hillsborough. It's a beautiful/safe neighborhood, but expensive and lacking in rentals. There are basically three main parts to San Mateo, each one having different demographics and housing costs. Here are the basics...

San Mateo Park - Zip Code 94402: As mentioned above, it's really nice but very expensive! It's also mainly single-family (and purchased) homes, especially as you head into the hills. You might find a rental along El Camino, but I wouldn't recommend that since it'll be overpriced and noisy.

Downtown & East San Mateo - 94401: Parts of this area are a little sketchy, especially as you go farther east or into the "Shoreview" district. There are some nice apartments and condos, particularly around Central Park and 2nd-5th Avenues... the rest is kind of shabby - not extremely dangerous, just some drugs and old/run-down houses. I hate to throw in a racial demographic, but it's where the majority of San Mateo's Hispanic immigrants live.

Hillsdale/San Mateo Hills - 94403: This would be my first choice, if you don't have millions to spend. It covers the neighborhoods around Hillsdale Mall, Alameda de las Pulgas, College of San Mateo, and the "high number streets" (20th-42nd approx) west of El Camino. There's not much crime, and it has lots of rentals that aren't toooo expensive. A 1-bedroom apt. will probably cost between $1000-1400, and my friend rents a nice 2-bedroom house for $2000. Only drawback is the weather, if you're more into sunshine... it gets quite foggy as you go up the hill, and has this nasty chilly wind sometimes. Brrrr! But there are some awesome views when it's clear, and it is very convenient to 3 major highways - 280, 101 & 92. You should check out rentals near College of San Mateo (also known as "Laurelwood" or West Hillsdale Blvd.), Hillsdale shopping mall, or possibly Norfolk @ East Hillsdale Blvd. Anyway, this should give you more than enough info, but let me know if you need more!

P.S. Culturally and activity-wise, San Mateo is fairly typical of a large suburb... Hillsdale shopping mall is nice; downtown has a new 12-screen theatre, lots of good restaurants, and standard shops. I perform with orchestras & community theatres there, so I know there's some good music , and San Fran is a short drive away.

[NY2Cali]

Well 'cdrobert' sooooo sorry to cramp your style. I suppose I'll stay in NYC now and spread the word to all other east coasters who are considering a move to your area to stay put because you said so. ; ) Hahhahaa!

Gizmo- THANKS for the zip codes - great info!!! Any other areas in San Mateo county that you'd reccommend... I like the fact of having good access to all the bridges and roads there! As for the Stage deli... Skip it and hit up Katz deli on Houston street (another NYC institution and my fav.) on the Lower East side next time.... the Pastrami piled high on rye will literally will melt in your mouth!