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Over the past week, I've have found so much wonderful insight from many of the partipants on this forum -- what a wonderful resource, thank you! And now I need some insight for my own...
My husband and I were both born and raised here in the Bay Area. We lived in Hawai'i for 3 years and during that time we got married, had 2 children, and are now back here so my husband can finish pursuing for his degree.
He is majoring in Software Engineering at SJSU and will be done in 3 more semesters after this Fall term. As anyone's goal is to live comfortably, so is ours.
With having two small children (ages 3 and 2), our ultimate goal is to have a house and yard for them to play and call their own, located in a good/safe neighborhood, with relatively decent schools. Personally, I would like this to be a newer home in an affordable area but to compromise overall I would like this house to be the place that the kids can say they grew up in with deep consideration for safety and education.
After coming up with a generalized budget of what our term of comfortable may entail (which mostly consists of expenses and addresses the need for savings for retirement, emergencies, holidays, etc... but still includes taking vacations -- I'm an anal budgeteer, hah), I've come to the conclusion that the Bay Area may not be the place to make this happen with the cost of living here. I honestly do not want to spend my whole paycheck on a mortgage payment.
I understand that being here in the Silicon Valley does have it's abundance of opportunities/experience for him. And I completely agree with the views of opportunity and that this is the ultimate hub for him. But I can't help but feel that it is still possible for him to find really great opportunities elsewhere, and would provide him the experience that he wants/needs, that would pay similarly (or relatively) yet afford us the comforts we're aiming for.
I've considered us going to the East Bay or Sac, down for out-of-state with the right offer and fits the mold, but Hubbs is really tied to the Bay Area to start with because of big name companies and all the opportunity. I mean, why shouldn't he be? You know? I don't want to stomp on his dreams or cap his potential but I really just want us to play our cards right. Not perfect, but right.
So my questions are these:
- Am I out of line to suggest the idea to him that to be more profitable in the long run that we need to move out of the area once he grads? Even with him eventually becoming a SE? Is this even a foolish idea?
- I realize that job offerings will be less and possibly lower in pay once we move outwards, but would he still be able to find decent work and pay as a Software Engineer outside the Silicon Valley?
- Any other scenario suggests that would be worth considering?
I really appreciate anyone who takes the time to read this (sorry so lengthy) and can offer any sound advice or insight.
It sounds like you're both pretty young, and your children are still little. Have you considered just being patient and going without the housey and the yardie for a while? The Bay Area is still a lousy place to buy a nice starter home, but it's also still a great place to start a career in the tech industry. Maybe just get something going there while renting an apt for a few years and then make a move after he has some experience under his belt.
As I'm sure you know, it's not currently possible to buy a decent house in Silicon Valley on a software engineer's salary unless you have cash for a big downpayment. So the immediate choices are: (1) rent; (2) buy elsewhere and commute; (3) make more money/2nd income; (4) move away from the Bay Area.
Longer term, it's hard to imagine that house prices can remain as out of sync with people's incomes as they have been in recent years. Already prices have fallen substantially in some areas. In another 2-3 years I imagine the outlook will be much brighter for those who have been priced out of real estate this past decade.
There are certainly many other cities in the U.S. where a typical software engineer will live much more comfortably on his salary; the main advantage of the Bay Area is the sheer variety and number of tech jobs.
For some, this advantage (along with the other amenities of the Bay Area) is enough to outweigh the extremely high cost, especially while they are young and single and don't mind living in apartments. Others can't imagine why anyone would stay here when the economics work out so much better everywhere else.
Then there are folks who manage to work for Bay Area employers (with Bay Area salaries) from remote/home offices elsewhere in the country. Just in my small work group I can think of 5 or 6 guys who do this, from such locations as far northern California, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, and even the mid-west. Pretty sweet deal if you can swing it. I might try to arrange a similar situation a few years down the line if real estate remains overpriced.
Over the past week, I've have found so much wonderful insight from many of the partipants on this forum -- what a wonderful resource, thank you! And now I need some insight for my own...
My husband and I were both born and raised here in the Bay Area. We lived in Hawai'i for 3 years and during that time we got married, had 2 children, and are now back here so my husband can finish pursuing for his degree.
He is majoring in Software Engineering at SJSU and will be done in 3 more semesters after this Fall term. As anyone's goal is to live comfortably, so is ours.
With having two small children (ages 3 and 2), our ultimate goal is to have a house and yard for them to play and call their own, located in a good/safe neighborhood, with relatively decent schools. Personally, I would like this to be a newer home in an affordable area but to compromise overall I would like this house to be the place that the kids can say they grew up in with deep consideration for safety and education.
After coming up with a generalized budget of what our term of comfortable may entail (which mostly consists of expenses and addresses the need for savings for retirement, emergencies, holidays, etc... but still includes taking vacations -- I'm an anal budgeteer, hah), I've come to the conclusion that the Bay Area may not be the place to make this happen with the cost of living here. I honestly do not want to spend my whole paycheck on a mortgage payment.
I understand that being here in the Silicon Valley does have it's abundance of opportunities/experience for him. And I completely agree with the views of opportunity and that this is the ultimate hub for him. But I can't help but feel that it is still possible for him to find really great opportunities elsewhere, and would provide him the experience that he wants/needs, that would pay similarly (or relatively) yet afford us the comforts we're aiming for.
I've considered us going to the East Bay or Sac, down for out-of-state with the right offer and fits the mold, but Hubbs is really tied to the Bay Area to start with because of big name companies and all the opportunity. I mean, why shouldn't he be? You know? I don't want to stomp on his dreams or cap his potential but I really just want us to play our cards right. Not perfect, but right.
So my questions are these:
- Am I out of line to suggest the idea to him that to be more profitable in the long run that we need to move out of the area once he grads? Even with him eventually becoming a SE? Is this even a foolish idea?
- I realize that job offerings will be less and possibly lower in pay once we move outwards, but would he still be able to find decent work and pay as a Software Engineer outside the Silicon Valley?
- Any other scenario suggests that would be worth considering?
I really appreciate anyone who takes the time to read this (sorry so lengthy) and can offer any sound advice or insight.
Thanks so much,
Lynne
Once you get the home ownership thing out of the picture (for now) then I think you can do it here.
My husband and I were in the same boat about 13 yrs ago (at the beginning of the whole housing bubble) in San Francisco.
For your husband, the goal of making a good living in his field is a lot more doable in the Bay Area..it just is. You'll just need to convince yourself that you can have everything you want in the Bay Area except home ownership. You'll have to wait (and this is alright because prices are only going down to the median income for any given city).
There are plenty of options to rent in a new, suburb with good schools..not my kind of thing but San Ramon and Pleasanton/Dublin areas would fit your criteria. Although the job situation is horrible now, eventually it'll pick up again (I hope) and he'll be able to find something just about anywhere in the Bay Area (not limited to Silicon Valley). Just my 2cents!
You went to Hawaii and now you are back. Both places are very expensive but nice of course in there own ways. I agree with the other comments for the most part. I am a senior SW engineer living in Monterey which is just as pricey as the SV. And I can tell you that we moved from CA to CO for more affordable living with the birth of our third child. And we bought a nice big house there for next to nothing by CA standards. But I missed the coast and my wife her family after a while. So now we are back and leasing a house in a beautiful area with an ocean view blocks from the beach.
While it is nice being a home owner, its not a cure all for all life's ills thats for sure. There are pluses and minuses to it. We may buy here some day. But after weighing the pros/cons and overall cost leasing makes more sense for us and our kids right now.
But if owning a home has got you pining away all the time then by all means go out and explore again - maybe CO this time if you don't mind snow. There are plenty of SW jobs there and homes in the 200K range. The thing to keep in mind is that your kiddos might like to live near family and flying or taking cross country drives gets old and expensive after a while.
Every place has pros/cons - the biggest con to the bay area is housing prices. Why do you feel you need to buy right away?
You went to Hawaii and now you are back. Both places are very expensive but nice of course in there own ways. I agree with the other comments for the most part. I am a senior SW engineer living in Monterey which is just as pricey as the SV. And I can tell you that we moved from CA to CO for more affordable living with the birth of our third child. And we bought a nice big house there for next to nothing by CA standards. But I missed the coast and my wife her family after a while. So now we are back and leasing a house in a beautiful area with an ocean view blocks from the beach.
While it is nice being a home owner, its not a cure all for all life's ills thats for sure. There are pluses and minuses to it. We may buy here some day. But after weighing the pros/cons and overall cost leasing makes more sense for us and our kids right now.
But if owning a home has got you pining away all the time then by all means go out and explore again - maybe CO this time if you don't mind snow. There are plenty of SW jobs there and homes in the 200K range. The thing to keep in mind is that your kiddos might like to live near family and flying or taking cross country drives gets old and expensive after a while.
Every place has pros/cons - the biggest con to the bay area is housing prices. Why do you feel you need to buy right away?
Derek
Dear Lynne,
let me apologize that I interrupted your thread with my question. I can initiate similar new thread if you wish, please let me know.
Dear Derek,
we are (may be) in a similar situation: I am a SW engineer with 10 years experience and my wife is finishing her post doctoral academic work. We have two kids (2 and 7) and are planning to relocate to USA (from Israel) when Silicon Valley, Boston MA area and Chicago IL are possible options. We both are planning to find full time jobs. We are not mind to lease a house instead of buying, but is it possible to find good house in a beautiful area for about $2K.
Dear Lynne,
let me apologize that I interrupted your thread with my question. I can initiate similar new thread if you wish, please let me know.
Dear Derek,
we are (may be) in a similar situation: I am a SW engineer with 10 years experience and my wife is finishing her post doctoral academic work. We have two kids (2 and 7) and are planning to relocate to USA (from Israel) when Silicon Valley, Boston MA area and Chicago IL are possible options. We both are planning to find full time jobs. We are not mind to lease a house instead of buying, but is it possible to find good house in a beautiful area for about $2K.
Thanks a lot,
Alex
Hi Alex,
I would say you and your wife should be fine. It really depends how big of a house you want/can live with. And of course if it is in a high demand area with better schools for your kids. Although prices out here are higher good deals can be found. The amount of time you have to look will also come into play.
In our case we found a moderate sized 3 bedroom/2 bath house in Pacific Grove within a mile from the beach for $2K. The area is normally pretty expensive with the best schools and Pebble Beach right next door. After about a year we decided to upgrade to a larger home (4 bedroom) in a very desirable area in Monterey within several blocks of the beach for $2.4K. We have 3 children and needed the additional space so the move was worth it for us.
Both of these were considered very good deals for the areas. And both were found on Craigslist. The second one took longer to find. In the SV prices are also high. The range you are looking at is between $2-3K depending on the factors I mentioned.
Initially you may need to do the same in finding a moderate place in a good area to meet your needs to begin with. Then upgrade when/if need be.
they bring PHD's from bombay for 1/2 the price.
the professions are under full scale attack. still the mind set is if i run high enough up the advanced degree ladder and rack enough student loans i can beat the game.
unions? you gota be kidding. americans hate unions.
One area of the high tech industry which this doesn't occur in is DoD. But this normally requires US citizenship and a security clearance depending on the position.
Sad to say it, but unless a household pulls well into the 6 figures (we're talking 300K plus) it is simply not possible to have a "normal American childhood" in the Bay Area any more. There is always a tradeoff - live in the hood, live in the sticks, live in a beehive, live in a 1200 SF shack in need of work, rent, etc. But in any case, what would be just an afterthought in many other parts of the country, in terms of the "house is good hood, yard, good schools" etc is always a quandary here. Sorry to seem callous and jaded but I'm darn glad that the cumulative effects of circumstances and decisions led us down the DINK path.
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leasing a house in a beautiful area
