Cost of Living Really That High? (Albuquerque, Santa Fe: house, neighborhood, buy)

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by Androcles

I just want to say: Amen! I agree completely. Although I didn't finish college whatsover, for many of the reasons you mentioned. I don't really want to be rich, I just want $10 full time or equivalent for a single person with modest tastes to live on. I actually make $10.25 now, but the job is part time and full time positions are rare in a lot of libraries these days to avoid paying benefits, etc.

I was wondering why you left Santa Fe in the first place? I'm guessing because it's hard for an outsider to get hired. I was considering moving to New Mexico and a lot of the info on here has been very helpful. But I want to be wary of whatever drove you from there.

I'd be glad of anybody else who has comments too. One thing I wondered about was water shortages/conservation in NM. To what extent does it impact daily life, esp. for a single person possibly living in an apartment? I will keep searching the forums for more info too. Thanks.

Somebody gave me a reputation point on this thread, bringing me back to this particular thread. I was in Santa Fe and Albuquerque for 6 months in 2007. Yes, as you say, it is hard for outsiders to get hired in these markets, and once you are hired, it is easy to get fired for no legitamate reason (I was fired in Albuquerque). I knew people from San Francisco moving to Albuquerque for the 1st time who were also fired for no legitamate reason.

I also found people in Santa Fe and some (not all!) parts of albuquerque to be unwelcoming to newcomers, but the same is true in Flagstaff and many other small to medium sized artist colonies and college towns in the Southwest like Boulder, CO. It's a "personality clash" - the Southwest is ranked highly for the Consciencious personality type (New Mexico is #1), w/ low scores on the Open to experience scale, see: The United States of Mind - WSJ.com

But generations about friendliness or personalities are only generalization and it is a mistake to apply them to everyone. Compared to the Pacific Coast, New York, or the Upper Midwest, the Southwest (and Southeast, but not including Texas) is a different "people-environment," but the weather beats the Northern states!

And I might return to Albuquerque given that the town is one of the top 22 recession proof towns as rated by one of the financial magazines!

[TomM1]

I didn't know Walmart was a good thing.

BTW the population of Metropolitan Tucson is around 1,000,000.

[CCCVDUR]

A Superwallmart is a good thing because wages are higher than small Mom and Pop stores. And, they provide health care benefits. When a wallmart comes in, the small Mom and Pop stores have to raise wages to compete -- and also provide health care -- otherwise their employees leave to work at Wallmart.

Wallmart is also good because, as they say, "We Sell For Less!" As a result, all other retailers in town have to drop their prices to compete.

That's why in Albuquerque, there are 18 superwallmarts, and Smiths has to keep its grocery prices low to compete.

Here in Flagstaff, with no superwallmart, the grocery prices are outrageous, as are the prices at local sporting goods stores.

(Disclaimer: Nobody likes my posts on city-data because I'm an economic libertarian.)

Amazon.com: The Wal-Mart Revolution: How Big Box Stores Benefit Consumers, Workers, and the Economy: Richard Vedder, Wendell Cox: Books

[karmathecat]

I think this pretty much sums you up:

"Unfortunately, many of us "youngsters" have useless bachelors degrees in such fields as biology and philosophy. Therefore, we are working in service jobs, at $6-$10/hour. Most of us do not want to go back to college because it was (and still is) boring and too expensive."

First of all, smart people do not spend four years in college obtaining a degree in something that's completely irrelevant to the job market. They research what is currently in demand, and what is forecast to be in demand. They realize that some professsions ( doctors, lawyers, nurses, etc. ) will always be a neccesity and focus their energies on obtaining a degree/degrees in relevant fields. They don't find college to be boring and they find a way to pay for it. They don't walk out 4 or 5 years later with a bachelor's in basketweaving and a confused look on their faces. Countless friends of mine paid off student loans once they got well-paying jobs after graduating with a relevant and marketable degree.

Your minimum wage/barely above minimum wage job was never designed to support a family or even an individual. It was designed for short term, low skilled, entry level employment. Plenty of mailroom workers, shelve stockers, floor sweepers managed to work their way up in the company, not retire when they were still making sweeping floors and stocking shelves. I can easily remember when high school and college kids were the only employees at McDonalds, the idea of a real adult working there was laughable, unless that adult was mentally challenged. I cannot believe the number of seniors I see working at McDonald's and WalMart. For a lot of them, this is directly due to a lack of planning for an affordable retirement. Once you retire, you still need to eat, your medical costs will increase, you still have rent/mortgage/utilites to pay.

How much money do you contribute to SS with your 10.00 an hour job? How much are you able to put into a 401k or an IRA each year? Do you get the statements from SS which outline how much you can expect to get once you retire? Can you live on that? If you don't have health insurance, what do you do when you get really sick? If you're uninsured or underinsured, then the rest of us pay for you.

I know plenty of 20 and 30 somethings working for my company that have Master's, sometimes multiple Master's degrees. They make 6 figure incomes, doing nerdy computer stuff they love. They have decent cars, condos and houses. They are able to afford nice vacations and good daycare. They send their kids to good schools and have college funds started for them.

Superwalmart is not a good thing. Cities want companies to invest in them that pay high taxes, not get tax breaks. They want companies to invest locally, not send all profits directly back to Bentonville ( excpet Bentonville itself. I imagine they love WalMart ) They want companies that pay much more than Walmart to attract affluent people who will buy houses, big ticket items and contribute more to local infrastructure. Your average blue smock wearer could probably not afford a mortgage anywhere in the country with what WalMart pays.

Lazy and unmotivated individuals aren't the American dream, they're the American nightmare.

[TomM1]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

A Superwallmart is a good thing because wages are higher than small Mom and Pop stores. And, they provide health care benefits. When a wallmart comes in, the small Mom and Pop stores have to raise wages to compete -- and also provide health care -- otherwise their employees leave to work at Wallmart.

Wallmart is also good because, as they say, "We Sell For Less!" As a result, all other retailers in town have to drop their prices to compete.

That's why in Albuquerque, there are 18 superwallmarts, and Smiths has to keep its grocery prices low to compete.

Here in Flagstaff, with no superwallmart, the grocery prices are outrageous, as are the prices at local sporting goods stores.

You don't mention that Walmarts drive the mom and pop stores out of business.
Flagstaff does have several national chain grocery stores including Target.
See here.

Also, remind me again, from which country, that employs slave and convict labor, Walmart imports much of it goods .

[cynanthus]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

That's why in Albuquerque, there are 18 superwallmarts, and Smiths has to keep its grocery prices low to compete.

I don't necessarily disagree with your analysis of why Walmart is good for the general local economy in terms of keeping prices down, but thought I'd point out a factual mistake in your post. You mentioned there are 18 Walmarts in Albuquerque, but there are actually only nine. Of those, five are Super Walmarts.

Also, you're comparing Albuquerque to Flagstaff, which is not quite correct. Albuquerque is a metro area of over 700,000 people whereas Flagstaff has less than 70,000. A comparison between Flagstaff and Santa Fe would be more apt. Santa Fe has one Walmart and it's not a Super. I don't think that grocery prices in SF reflect competition from Walmart since there's only one store and it has only a small selection of groceries.

All that said, and back to the original point of this thread... Santa Fe seems more expensive than many places to me because it is smaller and there are fewer choices. In Albuquerque (for example) there are tons of grocery stores so I was able to shop around to find the lowest prices on items. In Santa Fe there are fewer choices so I feel -- correctly or not -- that I must be paying more. For me, I think it's perception versus reality. I can't say that grocery prices or gas prices or clothing prices are actually more expensive in Santa Fe, but I still feel like they are. Odd, huh?

[CCCVDUR]

I will neither respond nor attempt to debate with the previous posters since as an Economic Libertarian we have different viewpoints...

However as to the issue of education, the Elites at Universities have got to eliminate the standardized tests that prevent us Right Brain Dominant folks from getting masters degrees!

And we do need to cancel all free trade agreements and increase the manufacturing base in this country. Walmart has a lot of imports, but so does Best Buy and Costco.

Bob Clark of 770 KKOB said there were 17 superwallmarts in Albuquerque, presumably that also includes Bernalillo/Rio Rancho.

The Flagstaff Metro, according to the Chamber of Commerce, has about 95,000 persons. Coconino County has 150,000 persons, however, Flagstaff also is the largest city in all of Northern Arizona, serving several counties and towns as far away as 200 miles. Economically we are more important to Northern Arizona than Santa Fe is to Northern New Mexico...and also the home of Northern Arizona University...

thanks...
-tom

[karmathecat]

"However as to the issue of education, the Elites at Universities have got to eliminate the standardized tests that prevent us Right Brain Dominant folks from getting masters degrees!"

Oh, please. You've already admitted that one of the reasons you don't want to go back to school and get a better education is because it's "boring"! Fine, you don't like standardized tests, go to a trade school. Skilled massage therapists, hairdressers, mechanics and so on make much more than $10 an hour.

I love it when people use the word "elite" so friviously. What you mean is "educated" or "more successful than me", it smacks of jealousy.

[CCCVDUR]

Tom"However as to the issue of education, the Elites at Universities have got to eliminate the standardized tests that prevent us Right Brain Dominant folks from getting masters degrees!"

You"Oh, please. You've already admitted that one of the reasons you don't want to go back to school and get a better education is because it's "boring"! Fine, you don't like standardized tests, go to a trade school. Skilled massage therapists, hairdressers, mechanics and so on make much more than $10 an hour."

Geeez. What a put down, but very typical of the elitists posting on the Santa Fe and Boulder boards. You should know that right brain dominant people have excellent oral and written communication skills -- yet at the same time are able to see the forest for the trees ...

When looking at 5 answers on a multiple choice test, we right-brainers know that each one is meant by the test creator to be partially correct, and there is really no single truly correct answer ...

That's why nobody ever scores 100% on multiple guess tests except Ben Bernecke (last week's 60 Minutes) who is 100% left brained, but this is not meant to be a political statement ...

[karmathecat]

I think it's your "poor me" attitude that is a little off-putting:

"It seems to me that nobody seems to care about us.

It's a huge problem. The 18-34 and especially the 25-34 age demos should be propelling this economy in terms of purchasing power. Today they are not.

So much for the American dream."

I'd argue that within those two demos are quite a number of succesful individuals who ARE living the American dream..you know, the one that says you gain when you work hard. You may measure that financially, spiritually, however you choose to determine when you've "made it".

It does not get handed to you. You have to position yourself so that you can take advantage of what the world has to offer. You complain that some cities are very expensive, but there seem to be plenty of people who can afford to live there.

I am sure you can easily find rent in ABQ for $800 a month or less, and you can probably find a $10 an hour job. We have many call centers that require no more education than a GED or HS diploma. They'll train you to read scripts off of a screen and help cell phone customers, catalog shoppers and/or credit card users.

Good luck to you.