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Old 11-26-2008, 10:18 PM
 
857 posts, read 645,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rybert View Post
Stay the same size!
Why would you want your mountain town to stay the same size? As the owners of businesses retire, new businesses have to come in -- in order to provide jobs for the population. Generally, as technology advances, new businesses need more space to employ the same number of persons (e.g. a Home Depot versus your old-fashioned Ace or True Value hardware store).

If new businesses are not allowed to come in and build new facilities, then unemployment will increase. This is a simplistic argument, yet if you stay the same size, then unemployment, drugs, homelessness, and crime will continue to proliferate. Why mountain towns like Flagstaff, and Ashland, OR can't understand this I have no idea.
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Old 12-01-2008, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Burque!
3,695 posts, read 6,311,613 times
Reputation: 740
Yeah yeah... I guess there's just something disgusting to me about Santa Fe (or any other amazing NM town) being turned into the cesspool that is California, Florida, etc.

How the hell is humankind supposed to keep-up this grow grow grow direction? Exponential growth is the root of all the crap we're wading knee deep in right now!
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Don't ask, we want out!
88 posts, read 163,503 times
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You both have a point, though. I know that development is good for a community, HOWEVER, out of control development is NOT. For instance, here in Austin, rampant development has taken away most of its charm and its "weirdness", the thing that made it so unique. Downtown Austin now feels like a mini-Dallas and even some parts of NY. And guess from where do you see these developers coming from to take over this city and build these horrible suburbs and buildings? NY and LA!!!

I wish I had a video camera to show you what "progress" and "development" looks like from my office window. To the right of me is IH-35 (which is a disaster, no matter how many lanes they want to add to it), it's already slowing down to almost a trickle (and it's only 1:45!). To the front of me are about 10 building cranes. To the left of me towards the hills are McMansions and more building cranes.

Never mind the incessant traffic, very long commutes because a lot of people have moved to the 'burbs which are more affordable but far away.

I mean, it's ok to develop an area but for goodness sake don't destroy the natural habitats and beautiful scenery and stop building the same strip malls. My word...you should see the drive from Austin to San Antonio on IH-35. It's miles and miles of shopping strips, home depots, mcdonalds, walmarts...drive 2 miles....then the same strip malls over and over again for over 60 miles. You only see a 10-mile stretch of road where there is no development, just beautiful hills and plains. But guess what? These empty plains have big signs with For Sale signs for commercial construction! That means that in less than 5 years, a drive from Austin to San Antonio will be one big honker stretch of road with buildings all the way for an hour and a half.

That is scary to me.

Last edited by southernjedi; 12-02-2008 at 12:58 PM..
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Old 12-04-2008, 06:59 PM
 
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To everyone that thinks the living wage is great, start to look around Santa Fe and look at all the empty store fronts. How many poeple have to lose there small business before you people figure it out. Everyone that is pro living wage are the same people that complain about the prices of goods they buy going up. big box store are leaving in droves and small companys cant survive. Have fun driving to albq for you crap.
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Burque!
3,695 posts, read 6,311,613 times
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Wouldn't big box stores leaving be a good thing?
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Old 12-05-2008, 01:32 AM
 
857 posts, read 645,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericpco View Post
To everyone that thinks the living wage is great, start to look around Santa Fe and look at all the empty store fronts. How many poeple have to lose there small business before you people figure it out. Everyone that is pro living wage are the same people that complain about the prices of goods they buy going up. big box store are leaving in droves and small companys cant survive. Have fun driving to albq for you crap.
If you heard Thom Hartmann last week (your affiliates are KTRC 1260 / KVOT 1340 / KABQ 1350) he mentioned that a $14/hr minimum wage would actually help businesses not go out of business, because then people would have more money to purchase consumer products. Here in your twin city of Flagstaff, Arizona, we also have businesses going out of business, but we don't have a living wage. So your suggestion doesn't apply to a scenario comparing two similar mountain towns both in recessions - one w/o a minimum wage, and one with a living wage. So perhaps the only true test is to make it really high as Hartmann said - $14/hr. The minimum wage is about the only area of economics where I am not Libertarian. And, businesses go out of business because of high taxes. What are your taxes over there? Sadly, here in Flagstaff, they just passed impact fees on businesses wanting to come to town. This will result in less job growth and increasing unemployment. -T
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Old 12-06-2008, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Santa Fe
731 posts, read 1,037,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lane View Post
If you heard Thom Hartmann last week (your affiliates are KTRC 1260 / KVOT 1340 / KABQ 1350) he mentioned that a $14/hr minimum wage would actually help businesses not go out of business, because then people would have more money to purchase consumer products. Here in your twin city of Flagstaff, Arizona, we also have businesses going out of business, but we don't have a living wage. So your suggestion doesn't apply to a scenario comparing two similar mountain towns both in recessions - one w/o a minimum wage, and one with a living wage. So perhaps the only true test is to make it really high as Hartmann said - $14/hr. The minimum wage is about the only area of economics where I am not Libertarian. And, businesses go out of business because of high taxes. What are your taxes over there? Sadly, here in Flagstaff, they just passed impact fees on businesses wanting to come to town. This will result in less job growth and increasing unemployment. -T
$14 an hour for washing dishes or cleaning tables? I know a lot of owners of small businesses in town and they are already in trouble. This minimum wage will force them to lay off employees or cut their hours. I agree with a higher minimum wage than the feds have, but it is getting to a point in SF that it is too much. And it has a domino effect. When the lowest paid employees get a raise when the MW goes up, everyone else also wants one.

In this economy forcing a small business to pay an unrealistic wage for menial work is hurting them badly. The owner of PD bean, a locally owned coffee shop, has a sign next to the cash register saying "Menu prices are for our regular customers. The mayor and city councilors can add $10 per item."
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Old 12-06-2008, 11:27 PM
 
857 posts, read 645,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loborick View Post
$14 an hour for washing dishes or cleaning tables? I know a lot of owners of small businesses in town and they are already in trouble. This minimum wage will force them to lay off employees or cut their hours. I agree with a higher minimum wage than the feds have, but it is getting to a point in SF that it is too much. And it has a domino effect. When the lowest paid employees get a raise when the MW goes up, everyone else also wants one.

In this economy forcing a small business to pay an unrealistic wage for menial work is hurting them badly. The owner of PD bean, a locally owned coffee shop, has a sign next to the cash register saying "Menu prices are for our regular customers. The mayor and city councilors can add $10 per item."
It's not too much because the Minimum Wage if it had been adjusted for inflation in the first place would be over $10 per hour. Both parties are at fault in this case for not indexing the minimum wage to inflation many years ago. Bob Brinker has been stressing the importance of indexing the minimum wage to inflation for years.
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:18 AM
 
Location: IA
147 posts, read 287,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lane View Post
It's not too much because the Minimum Wage if it had been adjusted for inflation in the first place would be over $10 per hour. Both parties are at fault in this case for not indexing the minimum wage to inflation many years ago. Bob Brinker has been stressing the importance of indexing the minimum wage to inflation for years.

I believe this just shows how weak our economy has truly become, or actually is!
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Santa Fe
731 posts, read 1,037,540 times
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Whatever the reason, that's not the reality. You obviously don't own a small business. I know of at least two that are hanging on by the skin of their teeth. This increase will shut them down. One is fairly new, the other has been around almost 30 years. What happens to those employees? 42 cents an hour is less than $17 a week for someone working 40 hours. After taxes, probably about $12. Is that worth pushing some businesses to the brink of closing, or over?

What irks me even more is the city is requiring the minimum wage to go up, but they don't have to comply and they are freezing raises for city employees! Either you practice what you preach or you shut up.

I have written to city councilors about this and have never even received acknowledgement that they received my message. They are pompous and egotistical. And that includes the mayor.
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