Unconstitutional Property Tax -- what to do next? (Albuquerque, Santa Fe: how much, house)

[SanfordR]

Originally Posted by Santa Fe

I believe that New Hampshire has a very limited state income tax. The price you pay for that is a high property tax or other taxes, e.g., sales tax. If you looked at the total tax package for the typical person, I believe that New Hampshire is relatively reasonable. The Tax Foundation puts them in the ten lowest.

I think that groups that have looked at the total tax package have found the mid-Atlantic states the highest -- NJ. NY, Conn, Maryland joined by California and Hawaii.

Alaska, with it socialist taxation of the oil industry, is the lowest according to most -- plus they actually send you a check. Southwestern states are low in total taxes -- but NEW MEXICO is higher than its neighbors -- Nevada, Arizona and Texas are better.

And what are we getting for the higher taxes? Bottom of the barrel schools? I like it that we are so uncrowded. But there is a reason we are so uncrowded -- people choose other states.

Tax Foundation data are presented by another group at:
http://www.retirementliving.com/tax_burden_2008.pdf

NH has no sales tax and no state income tax. But you're right, they do manage to get it from you in other ways. NM's poorly rated schools- a big negative for NM I agree.

[Santa Fe]

Originally Posted by mortimer

Taxes, overall, are still low in NM. I pay far less than my sister in NJ - even with Tax Lightning.

When you look at the total tax package, of course we pay less than NJ which is crowded and totally urbanized and also offers opportunities to make more money.

It is more reasonable to compare us to other southwestern states and then are taxes are a little worse than average. When you throw in Tax Lightning then we who are hit hard by tax lightning are considerably worse off than average for the Southwest.

[mortimer]

Originally Posted by Santa Fe

... compare us to other southwestern states ... worse off than average ...

I think income tax rates are worse here also.
None of those other states have significant oil/gas revenue either.

No doubt about it, NM is a higher-cost state than AZ/UT/CO/NV.

[RamblinRoseRanch]

Mort, methinks you deserve the title of Perpetually Pisser-ed.

:0)

If I don't get an answer from the mortgage company soon, I can claim the title as well. You'd think with things the way they are, any legit mortgage would have them salivating.

[Santa Fe]

Originally Posted by RamblinRoseRanch

Mort, methinks you deserve the title of Perpetually Pisser-ed.

:0)

If I don't get an answer from the mortgage company soon, I can claim the title as well. You'd think with things the way they are, any legit mortgage would have them salivating.

I think I am right up there also. I wouldn't mind the taxes, even including Tax Lightning, so much if it wasn't that we are paying for incompetent corrupt government.

In Espanola, eight percent of the junior class meet the state state standards for math proficiency. More than eight per cent of the class are on the honor roll. Which means -- they are honor roll students who don't meet the state standards for math proficiency. Which in turn means that the honor roll is a bad joke.

In Santa Fe, we have a director of a state film museum who earns 80K. BUT we don't have a film museum.

[GreatSantaFe]

Santa Fe says: "It is more reasonable to compare us to other southwestern states and then are taxes are a little worse than average. When you throw in Tax Lightning then we who are hit hard by tax lightning are considerably worse off than average for the Southwest."
Mortimer says: "No doubt about it, NM is a higher-cost state than AZ/UT/CO/NV.

I say - in the words of a mentor of mine - "Until you come to me with facts, all you're giving me is your opinion." Now you folks are entitled to your opinions, but I think that you should state them as such - not as fact.

[Santa Fe]

Originally Posted by GreatSantaFe

Santa Fe says: "It is more reasonable to compare us to other southwestern states and then are taxes are a little worse than average. When you throw in Tax Lightning then we who are hit hard by tax lightning are considerably worse off than average for the Southwest."
Mortimer says: "No doubt about it, NM is a higher-cost state than AZ/UT/CO/NV.

I say - in the words of a mentor of mine - "Until you come to me with facts, all you're giving me is your opinion." Now you folks are entitled to your opinions, but I think that you should state them as such - not as fact.

I gave you sources for my facts. Look at the message where I cited the Tax Foundation data as presented by another group. I specifically listed the southwestern states that had a lower tax burden than NM according the Tax Foundation data.

Earlier I cited a ABQ Journal article as the source for information on the Tax Lightning multiple.

The 8 per cent proficient in math for juniors in Espanola was from a very good and reputable sports writer for the Rio Grande Sun who was trying to remind Espanola parents that academics are important. It was this source that noted that some honor roll students were not proficient in math. I did not cite this source, but will do so now:
Rio Grande Sun > Sports > Morse Code: Test Results Should Be Wake-Up Call to Parents

So which of these facts do you want to dispute?

[GreatSantaFe]

Whoa SantaFe, don't get so defensive. No one is attacking you and it's too bad you see it as such.
1 - All I asked for are facts supporting your (and anyone else's) assertion that NM is a higher cost state, or a more highly taxed state than others in the southwest.
2 - In response to my request you present 3 arguments. One, about test results in Espanola, doesn't appear to have any relevance at all. An other, that Albuquerque article about the multiplier effect also doesn't. The only example you provide is from the Tax Foundation and its rankings of states.
Maybe their figures are legitimate, but maybe not if the following aritcle is to be believed:
Caution: the Tax Foundation's State and Local Tax Rankings are Unreliable — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
You know the old expression: "Figures don't lie, but liars figure."

I would rather cite the statistics from the official Federal Cost of Living Index (COL) and the Housing Cost Index (HC). The higher the number the more expensive. Here they are for the 4th Quarter of FY'08 (latest figures available). I listed them from high to low for the southwestern states:

COL HC
California 136.6 201.3
Nevada 109.2 126.4
Arizona 106.3 117.8
Colorado 105.7 115.5
New Mexico 101.4 104.3
Utah 95.0 92.1
Texas 90.5 77.6

So, sounds like you should move to Texas!

[Santa Fe]

You listed me as one of two persons giving opinions rather than facts in a specific case. I went back over my earlier posts on this thread to show that I am in the habit of presenting facts with supporting evidence. I don't claim perfection in this -- the Tax Foundation data may be flawed.

However, although I am myself liberal this is a case where I find the conservative Tax Foundation data credible which is why I used it.

I notice that while you criticized the Tax Foundation data, you do not present alternative data on taxes. Instead you turn to cost of living.

I am very sorry that you found a few citations upsetting. I am not sure why you did. I did not use offensive language or accuse you of anything. All I really did was disagree with you.

Re cost of living -- I am not going to comment on that. My earlier post on incompetence in government was pulled because it was not on taxes and thus held to be off-topic. Presumably cost of living is off topic also.

In response to the suggestion from the moderator, I will start a separate thread -- incompetence in New Mexico government and repeat my pulled post.

[Santa Fe]

Back to taxes, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities cites favorably the methodology of the Federation of Tax Administrators. Going to their site, I find a publication http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/DC_Tax_Burden_07.pdf which compares the largest city in each state with Washington DC and with each other of course.

This data, thank you GreatSantaFe, is even more devastating. For a family of three, income 25K, 2007, Albuquerque despite its location in the Southwest ranks 23 -- top half -- above New York City; Washington, DC; Los Angeles; Houston, TX; Newark, NJ; Boston, MA; Manchester, NH; Bridgeport, CT; -- need I go on?

For 50K, ABQ is 20th, even higher.

For 75K, ABQ is 24th -- still top half.

100K, still 24th

150 K, 28th -- finally make the bottom half

Overall -- 24th -- top half.



While the comparison is with ABQ, if anything I would suspect that Santa Fe's taxes burden is greater than ABQ and thus greater than all the cities listed above in this post -- i.e., NYC etc.