Draconian HOA in this new Parrish subdivision (St. Petersburg, Lakeside: HOA fees, condos)

[tricon7]

Although I work in south St. Petersburg, I thought of looking for a home in the Parrish area to buy because I would get so much more for my money there. And I wouldn't be in the congested city. So I found a fantastic home in Parrish in the Lakeside Preserve subdivision (homes built around 2010), and I put an offer in on one. Although the HOA fees were somewhat high, they weren't out-of-sight, so I didn't think it would be an issue. However, later on got online and perused the details of the HOA. It turns out that you can't do squat without "permission" from them first. On things such as how much mulch you can put down, the height of your grass, what color paint you can paint your doors/shutters with, what kind of mailbox you have, when you can open your garage door, etc., and it gets unbelievably trivial. If you "violate" any of their rules, the HOA police will either send you a threatening letter in the mail or a fine.

I'm used to a few rules, but this HOA is is on a totally different level. I don't think I voluntarily want to put myself under the thumb of an HOA that scrutinizes so heavily. Does anyone know if any of these newer developments in the Parrish/Ellenton area have HOAs that are more hands-off than Lakeside Preserve? Is this what I can expect from all the others? Does anyone currently live here or know someone who does and can offer some advice ?

I don't understand why paying them scads of more money entitles them to more control over the residents. Seems like it would be the other way around. In any event, I'm mulling the thought of rescinding my offer and looking elsewhere. I want to feel like a property owner, not a property renter.

Advice needed as soon as possible, please.

[Sicilee]

I can't speak to FL, but these rules do not surprise me. The last condo I lived in...I wished they had more rules and not fewer, as the behavior of other owners (chain smoking on their balcony below us, unattended dog barking constantly) prevented us from using our patio or even opening our windows. We moved from there and don't miss it one bit. Typically (maybe not in all states though?) there is a period of time after examination of the condo documents when you can retract your offer. What does your contract say about that? I would say, if these rules give you heartburn, don't do it. Find a way out.

[bbronston]

I don't know about the degree to which these communities enforce their rules, so I can't help you there, but I commend you for not making the same mistake that many people make when it comes to communities with HOAs. Putting aside the merits or downsides of community rules (HOA/COA, etc.), the bottom line is that there are communities that have rules and associations to enforce them, and areas that have no rules or associations. One would think that buyers who have a disdain for rules would not seek out the communities that have rules but we see, time and time again, that this doesn't happen. Reading the association documents before looking at homes is a good idea but almost no one wants to do it, and then they become incensed or indignant that someone actually has the nerve to expect them to live by the rules of their community.

Look at it this way: you are buying into a community where, presumably, every other owner has already made a choice to live by certain rules and standards with the belief that they will receive some benefit from doing so. They aren't crazed rule nazis but they do expect that everyone will live up to their responsibility to follow the rules. True, some places are more enthusiastic than others...LOL...but their enthusiasm or lack of it is not the point. If they choose to be lax, that's their choice but they are completely right to be as fully enthusiastic as possible if they like because each and every rule is there to be followed. It's easy....either live by them or live elsewhere but don't blame people for expecting you to do what you agreed to do when you joined their group by buying there.

I think the reality is that most places, as you noted, don't enforce rules that tightly because everyone is generally too busy with their lives to get involved. However, you can't count on that because people move out and new people move in all the time. If a "loose" community eventually gets someone there who rightly expects everyone else to follow the rules he or she bought into, that person is absolutely right to start enforcing the rules until the association decides, through whatever procedure the docs allow, to change the rules to reflect the looser way of doing things.

[tricon7]

Originally Posted by bbronston

I don't know about the degree to which these communities enforce their rules, so I can't help you there, but I think you are making the same mistake that many people make when it comes to communities with HOAs. Putting aside the merits or downsides of community rules (HOA/COA, etc.), the bottom line is that there are communities that have rules and associations to enforce them, and areas that have no rules or associations. One would think that buyers who have a disdain for rules would not seek out the communities that have rules but we see, time and time again, that this doesn't happen. Reading the association documents before looking at homes is a good idea but almost no one wants to do it, and then they become incensed or indignant that someone actually has the nerve to expect them to live by the rules of their community.

Look at it this way: you are buying into a community where, presumably, every other owner has already made a choice to live by certain rules and standards with the belief that they will receive some benefit from doing so. They aren't crazed rule nazis but they do expect that everyone will live up to their responsibility to follow the rules. True, some places are more enthusiastic than others...LOL...but their enthusiasm or lack of it is not the point. If they choose to be lax, that's their choice but they are completely right to be as fully enthusiastic as possible if they like because each and every rule is there to be followed. It's easy....either live by them or live elsewhere but don't blame people for expecting you to do what you agreed to do when you joined their group by buying there.

I think the reality is that most places, as you noted, don't enforce rules that tightly because everyone is generally too busy with their lives to get involved. However, you can't count on that because people move out and new people move in all the time. If a "loose" community eventually gets someone there who rightly expects everyone else to follow the rules he or she bought into, that person is absolutely right to start enforcing the rules until the association decides, through whatever procedure the docs allow, to change the rules to reflect the looser way of doing things.

I think there should be middle ground - not "let everyone be free to do whatever he wants" or else "no one can do anything without HOA approval." Just because there is no HOA doesn't mean the residents will riot or turns their homes/yards into cesspools. You're going to an extreme to make a point I live in an area with no HOA, and it's the perfect idyllic neighborhood. Sure, there's an occasional house with something unsightly outside, but because everyone owns his home, and it's in an upper-middle class area, virtually everyone cares for what he owns. This is the kind of area I'm looking for.

[bbronston]

Hi...first of all, I realized that I forgot to change the first sentence (I took a different tack while writing) so please read it after the edit.

I don't disagree with you, really. The problem is that a non-HOA community has almost no way to deal with someone who wants to throw an idyllic neighborhood into a mess. HOAs are definitely a trade-off of living with rules that you may or may not like, and having a way of dealing with the non-conformists that can be problematic. I have no problem with non-conformists, but I wouldn't want one who loves their newly painted home in Pepto Pink, living in the middle of the idyllic block.

No HOA? Great! HOA? Great! Just make sure you are in the right place for you.

[bbronston]

Here's what can happen in a community with no HOA...

https://youtu.be/ASyhJ0lRIU0

[macrodome2]

Originally Posted by bbronston

Here's what can happen in a community with no HOA...

https://youtu.be/ASyhJ0lRIU0

I only saw that commercial a few days ago and thought it was hilarious. Before a property gets to that level of decrepitude, the city/county or whatever municipality it is located in would have some zoning ordinances in place. If you feel uncomfortable in a deed restricted community and find a non-restricted area you like, check the local zoning to see if it's limitations would be sufficient for you.


A bbronson stated earlier, even if the HOA rules are being loosely enforced now it doesn't mean that can't change. The rules themselves can actually change also.


Having said that, we live in a deed restricted community because it is very difficult to get the amenities we wanted without one. It does make it easier to meet people, especially if you are not working (we're retired) and it is more convenient to go to the pool in the community that to go to the "Y".

[Shabotnik]

tricon7:

I'm glad you at least read and comprehended the HOA rules before you bought. In our HOA, you can't park vehicles in your driveway overnight. New guy moves in and decides to give his '37 Chevy one of the spaces in the two-car garage and leave a Jeep in the driveway all the time.

Hello? Can't you read? We had the rules before your Chevy came here. Go pay storage fees somewhere, but your garage is unavailable if you're going to have two other vehicles.

[IC_deLight]

Originally Posted by bbronston

Here's what can happen in a community with no HOA...

https://youtu.be/ASyhJ0lRIU0

A bit ironic considering the commercial is promoting DirecTV satellite over cable and the industry of HOA attorneys and HOA management companies vehemently fought the laws that were created to prevent cable monopolies in subdivisions and condos. All that revenue from the monopoly and from "fines" for homeowners that were now free to select satellite services was gone.

The idea that people voluntarily choose to be abused is just absurd. Folks need housing and they have to choose from what's available. There hasn't been anything built out there in 30+ years without involuntary membership HOAs so the choice becomes one of "which HOA" not "whether HOA".

Also, the idea that an HOA is "necessary" at all is absurd. You have municipal and county ordinances. In addition, you can have deed restrictions WITHOUT an HOA. Any homeowner can enforce deed restrictions.

[bbronston]

I don't think anyone said they are necessary but they do have a place for those who want them. And, wanting them is hardly the same as choosing to be voluntarily abused. That statement clearly shows your bias. People who approach them the right way aren't "abused" by the rules, they live within them and expect that their association will take steps to correct those who don't. Why is that so difficult to understand? It's not a negative unless you were stupid enough to buy in the wrong place for you in the first place. Don't get me wrong....I see benefits and downsides to both arrangements but that is the way we make decisions, right? We evaluate the pluses and minuses and determine the best course forward but that is not a license to ignore the realities and consequences of our decisions.

The idea that you don't have a choice, though, is wrong. Anyone is free to buy a resale or build on a vacant lot where there are few or no deed restrictions and no HOA and there are some very nice homes in those places...often on large lots that really appeal to folks who don't want to be in the typical later developments. All I am saying, just as others have said, is make your choice and then live up to your obligations without complaint. It's called being a responsible adult.