Fired for a button he wore (Sarasota, Fort Myers: neighborhoods, buy, luxury)

[Skunk Workz]

Originally Posted by Big House

All companies pay workers based on the merits of thier work, and the contribution they make. If the employees don't feel properly compensated they can take what they have learned, and move on and gain employment elsewhere. Companies usually will pay a competative severance package, competative wages, competative benefits that may include retirement contributions, and other things. Without them the employees can/will go elsewhere and find them, and it is all based on the merits of the individual, and the contribution she/he brings to the company. Without those merits the company would not have hired her/him in the first place, once in he/she should not receive the protection of the group, which can criple the business they work for, by becoming non-productive, cause work stoppages - partial or totally, or otherwise impede the business they were hired to, and agree to support and benefit in the first place.

I couldn't agree more. There will never be a day that I will want to have my compensation based on what everyone else gets. I am a unique individual and would never give up my ability to negotiate my compensation package as an individual.

While I care about my coworkers, and hope that they can negotiate a fair and equitable package, their compensation has nothing to do with the exchange of my (irreplaceable) time and problem solving ability for the employers $$.

[newguy101]

Originally Posted by IDASpaceman

Hey I got an idea...shut up, take your pin off, and get to work--there's a cleanup in aisle 5 that needs tending to.

Give me a break.

[Big House]

Originally Posted by Skunk Workz

I couldn't agree more. There will never be a day that I will want to have my compensation based on what everyone else gets. I am a unique individual and would never give up my ability to negotiate my compensation package as an individual.

While I care about my coworkers, and hope that they can negotiate a fair and equitable package, their compensation has nothing to do with the exchange of my (irreplaceable) time and problem solving ability for the employers $$.

Very good point!
I was given some great advice long long ago. I was told work hard, learn as much as you can, become as valuable as you can for the company you work for. If you get pigeon holed, or type-cast, and not appreciated for the work you do, revenue you create, or profits you save, then take what you have learned and move on. I followed that advice, and passed it on to all the people I trained, and taught them to become key-men for the companies that I worked for. Many are very successful and either run their own successful business, or are key men for other successful businesses.

Earning and negoatiating compensation based on merit is what keeps America Strong. They should learn from the lessons of the suffering businesses and not make the same mistakes.

I tried to give you rep points - but couldn't so here you go - REP POINT! REP POINT! REP POINT! Uh Oh! The rep point controller may get mad at me for skirting the system!!! LOL - just kidding rep point guru!

[keithhtt]

I was given similar advice (by my Father) and found it to be very valuable and true. I worked the first fifteen years of my life in the private sector and the last 20 in a union . Although about 20% of the union workforce work hard most of the time the majority lack a feeling of drive or ambition one gets when they are either trying to get ahead of survive in the workplace.

[Lilybeans]

Originally Posted by Big House

Ok, I didn't start this as a union - non-union discussion, but I think it is good different discussion.
I will start a separate thread, and see if we can get some good discussion going.

There is a lot of meritable discussions going on here! I just think that there needs to be some reasonable grounds for letting people go. Not petty things. Rules should be spelled out in a hand book, and although written documents need to allow for being updated from time to time in order to benefit the business that was founded on the intent of (generally - for growth, profit, and growth of the employees - that was part of my mission statement) the company's well being.

I am not so sure that wearing a button that is patriotic, or one supports God, the Baltimore Ravens, Pittsburgh Steelers, Washington Redskins or other things should receive so much intense focus, or recieve so much vehement treatment that someone should lose his job. I don't want to alienate anyone myself, but don't feel that everyone should be so opposed to others. Shouldn't there be some reasonable level of tolerance?

If it is written in a handbook, or added by ammendment - I can understand. In this case - if it was - then I understand, and support it. But if not, then I think that some measure of tolarance should be considered through a resolution ladder - if it comes to that. Sometimes there is abuse of power, and when that occurs - it is the most problematic too me.

Tolerance works both ways and we've seem to have forgotten that. Every time the boss asks you to do something is not a personal attack and is not getting after your individality. Sometimes a little tolerance from the person who thinks they are being vilated is a good thing too.

[xlabel]

This guy ought to hook up with this wingnut health care worker we have up here in MI. She was fired because it was hospital policy to get a flu shot and she refused. Her reason for not getting one? she believed that god gave us our immune systems as is and a shot is altering that. What's a shame is that idiots like these two get any attention at all, they'd make a great couple.

[justNancy]

Some people get the idea that "Freedom of Speech" means freedom from company rules & regulations. Private companies have nothing to do with the Constitution or violating rights. If you work for a Chevy dealer, you can go home and tell your friends you would rather drive a Honda, but you can't do that at work in front of customers. If you work for a clothing store that sells fur, don't wear a PETA button in the shop or a "Bad People Wear Fur" tee shirt.

In this case, the spokesman for Home Depot said:

"The company's dress code policy states that we do not allow noncompany buttons, regardless of their message or content."

This isn't about being patriotic or loving God. This is about a man who felt his personal beliefs were part of the company's dress code. He was given several warnings but decided to disobey them. What if he were gay? Would it be okay for Mr. Keezer to wear a "Gay Pride" button? After all, he insists we all live in one nation under God, right? So that must include everyone.

By the way "under God" wasn't added to the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954. Until 1954 it was

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

[tommy-105]

If Mr.Keezer was in the practice of reading his bible every day, why wasn't he doing that from day one? I think maybe his personal beliefs included "spreading the word", and when the button wasn't getting enough attention, he decided to step it up a notch. Management, who might have been cutting him some slack, decided that enough is enough, as was their right to do. Like any large company they already had anticipated issues like this and had put rules in place to prevent such conflicts.

If all the Home Depot cashiers started wearing their own slogans, I might have a real dilemma. Instead of getting on the shortest line, I might have to choose between the pro-life cashier or the pro-choice one. Might be easier to just go to the self serve checkout and leave the human being out of the transaction altogether.

JustNancy's contribution about the pledge of allegiance led me to an interesting article on Wikipedia, in which the credit for original composition of the pledge is given to a Christian Socialist. Seems like the wording has been altered a number of times over the years by various groups.
Pledge of Allegiance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Big House]

Originally Posted by Lilybeans

Tolerance works both ways and we've seem to have forgotten that. Every time the boss asks you to do something is not a personal attack and is not getting after your individality. Sometimes a little tolerance from the person who thinks they are being vilated is a good thing too.

You are absolutely right! It cuts both ways. The company can fire you, and be intolarant, obviously. But the employee can be exactly the same way, and quit when they are most needed, and leave the business short handed at a crutial time as well. And, overall, I believe that most companies and employees get along well together. I think that the case I brought up does show some intolarance on the part of the employer, and although rare and a bit more of an extreme case, it does happen sometimes.

Overall I support the at-will hiring laws. As I have stated throughout the post, but some understanding and tolarance by both parties can make it better. You stated it very well.

[justNancy]

Originally Posted by tommy-105

If all the Home Depot cashiers started wearing their own slogans, I might have a real dilemma. Instead of getting on the shortest line, I might have to choose between the pro-life cashier or the pro-choice one. Might be easier to just go to the self serve checkout and leave the human being out of the transaction altogether.

Interesting that you brought this up, because it reminds me of a couple of shopping experiences in Naples & Bonita Springs. I was in the Walmart on the corner of Immokalee Rd & 41 one day and one of the clerks asked if he could help me. Before he left me, he said "Jesus Loves You." Okay, I admit he recognized me from a church activity at Living Waters years earlier, but what does that have to do with putting an 18 pound bag of cat food into my cart for me? I just smiled, since I'll take all the blessings I can get, but maybe someone else would find that offensive. In Oct 2008, I was standing in line at the Publix in Pelican Landing, when the man in front of me saw I had only 1 or 2 items and said "go ahead" and added "that is, unless you're voting for Obama." I swear this is true. So I said "Oh, in that case..." and started to go back. By the time I left that checkout line, I was told I was voting for a terrorist and a baby killer and how ignorant I was of the facts. My last words were something like "I just came in to pickup a loaf of bread for God's sake."

Imagine if employees were allowed to take sides. Then I guess no liberals in Fort Myers or Sarasota would be able to buy groceries.