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Old 06-24-2012, 10:28 AM
 
23 posts, read 74,468 times
Reputation: 11

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both courts and lawyers and courts have found the ionization smoke alarm to be defective maybe you did not know that the reason that the limations in the smoke alarms are listed was a result of a lawusit ?
It was found by U.S Court that the ionization alarm was "defectively designed" and a "legal cause" of fire deaths

there is a former firefighter with the New Zealand fire service he became a safety advocate the person on his advisory board is the chairman of the first home fire detection code they are both supporting the idea that the type of smoke alarm almost 100% U.S. have needed to be banned and recalled they also do not endorse the use of dual ion/ photo units

Yes they should be banned because if you like to use logic Texas A&M has determined the ionization failure rate to be greater than 50% and Also note that chief John Gerard predicted 50-80% failure in ionization alarms (smoldering). the Ionization alarm has greater than 10% failure for flaming fires and with a failure of greater than 50% I think the only way to reduce deaths and or injuries to citizens as well as fire fighters is to ban an recall the ionization alarm.(also note that photo electric failure rate Again Texas A& M is 4% failure rate for both smoldering and flaming fires ) so mandates are needed for photoelectrics. and not for ionization and dual sensors. This banning must be the right thing to do becuase there have been an estimated over 400,000 deaths and injuries due to the defective product. so If you have an ionization alarm in your house tonight there is a very high chance you will not get out in time!!! also note that the first fire science phd stated that the combination alarm received a poor grade becuase they were more concerend with avoiding false alarms than early detection. yes any ion prouduct including dual sensor since these eare fruadulent products must be immediatly removed from the shelves you may also want to note that there was a fire chief in California that got a government resolution that said something like he worked tirelessly over the course of his career to mandate photo electric detectors and to outlaw ionization smoke detectors which are flame detectors and not smoke detctors. there is conclusive goverment scientifc test data that proves these these things are defective yet the manfacturer continues to sell them base on my notes it seems the industry knows that the smoke alarm test standard is flawed and they (UL ) seem to have made little if any effort to correct the problem. Fire evacutation specialists are now saying that if you have up to an hours pre-warning of a fire you can run to the exit before smoke comes down to eye level since they have stated you must be out under 2 minutes you must run!!!! ( since the whole room ignites in 3-5 minutes) 3-5 minutes you will not be able to crawl down 3 floors and make it in time!! The whole Photoelecric idea should be some thing like you wake up and find a cigarette dropped in a couch or something put it out with a glass of water and go back to bed. and or give you plenty of time to run to the exit before it burst into flames. because one you have flames its over becuase the room will ignite in about 3-5 minutes!!! an increasing number of local and international authorites are recognizing the dangers of the ionization or dual units and are working on madating photo electric only. also full scale testing has shown that an ionization alarm will actvate at about an hour by then you could have died of carbon monoxide poisoning but why would you want that when you could have had alot more escape time when there was little or no smoke in the room and you had plenty of time to run to the exit?

they should be internationally banned
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:41 AM
 
23 posts, read 74,468 times
Reputation: 11
Ionization alarm have a failure rate of greater than 50% in a smoldering fires. the Ionization alarm has a 20 % failure rate in flaming fires if you carefully read the directions in your instruction manual it would have said not to install smoke alarms in kitchens this is also reflected in the fire alarm code.
these failure rates are Generated From Texas A&M University Also Note the first fire scicence phd said that the combination( dual sensor) alarm when he looked at the government test said that the dual alarm got a poor grade because they were more concerned with avoiding false alarms rather than early detection.
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Old 06-24-2012, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
14,750 posts, read 43,547,533 times
Reputation: 20982
The other thread on the subject was perhaps better, and there are all sorts of restraint of trade and rights issues involved, but your statement here holds a problem that deserves to be exposed:

"Also Note the first fire scicence phd said that the combination( dual sensor) alarm when he looked at the government test said that the dual alarm got a poor grade because they were more concerned with avoiding false alarms rather than early detection."

We are all in agreement that the purpose of a fire alarm is to warn about a fire in a prudent manner. I don't see a cite reference to the "fire scicence phd" (sic), but I suspect that he is approaching his conclusion from the concept of "report everything at all costs, the one life saved is worth it." Such thinking is fallacious, and has been repeatedly proven to be fallacious.

I'll give you an outside example of what happens when such thinking is put into practice, so that you can more easily view it dispassionately. We live in tornado country. The weather and emergency services have the weather radios and sirens go off whenever there is a tornado within the county. The weather radio also goes off for "severe thunderstorm alerts", "flash flood alerts", "missing child alerts", "heat alert" and a few other alerts, to the point that I legitimately satirize that they are missing a "severe sunshine alert, followed by a full moon alert'.

Even though a storm might be no more than a mile wide, with possibilities of tornadoes, and only occurring in the southeastern tip of the county, where it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for it to have any effect on the rest of the county, all of these alerts are sounded in the entire county. The end result is that we have disconnected our weather radio, ignore sirens, and have gone back to looking outside or watching an online radar to get information about dangers.

You cannot cry wolf repeatedly without people learning to ignore the warning. PERIOD.

"the dual alarm got a poor grade because they were more concerned with avoiding false alarms rather than early detection"

WRONG answer. "fire scicence phd"s like that should be internationally banned for yelling "fire" in a crowded world.
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:51 PM
 
23,209 posts, read 33,031,868 times
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We live one block from a county line so we get alarms for both counties. Or we used to. Stupid radio is permanently turned off. I have to check our smoke/fire alarms, which were put in when the house was built in 1988.
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:03 PM
 
23 posts, read 74,468 times
Reputation: 11
you can say what you want but this is considered is in the absense of a full scale test and this is supposed to inspire you to due a full scale test

.com/embed/-HaBWqrHq8g?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfull<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtubescreen></iframe>
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
14,750 posts, read 43,547,533 times
Reputation: 20982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
We live one block from a county line so we get alarms for both counties. Or we used to. Stupid radio is permanently turned off. I have to check our smoke/fire alarms, which were put in when the house was built in 1988.
You realize that we are talking to a wall on this subject? If I thought it would make any difference, I'd try to find some chart or graph on where people cut off alarms. However, it would be dismissed. FWIW, the ones that are built into our place have been disconnected since the first month. I use a combo of plug-in and battery alarms instead which include a CO detector. (I might get annoyed, but I ain't stupid) However, there is no dissuading the "we want to control you" bunch except with a cold shoulder or a revolution.

Worldwide bans I'm sure the Somali will be for it, along with worldwide bans on stuff THEY don't like, like gunships near their coast. There have been calls for bans of just about everything. Whenever I hear that language I remember "The Music Man" "OHHHH, YOU GOT TRROUBLE! RIGHT HERE IN RIVER CITY!!!"
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:55 PM
 
23 posts, read 74,468 times
Reputation: 11
Default hi again

I relied on Mr Butler for a lot of information I think this test will help you you can see that you could have died of carbon monoxide posioning before the ion activated at an hour

and from the aquarium test you see the full scale test ppm is about 5 times the minumum needed for masks
Matt Cetin (Life Or Death Smoke Alarm Test) - YouTube

the ionization alarm has been found by a U.S Court to be "defectively designed" and a "legal cause of fire deaths"
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:59 PM
 
23 posts, read 74,468 times
Reputation: 11
Default harry

why dont you look at the above test and tell me your thoughts??? this is a full scale fire department test

you can see that from the aquarium test that the 114 ppm is about 5 times the lowest level needed for masks

when you are warned and you decided to endanger your family dont say I did not warn you
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
14,750 posts, read 43,547,533 times
Reputation: 20982
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredbaker View Post
why dont you look at the above test and tell me your thoughts??? this is a full scale fire department test

you can see that from the aquarium test that the 114 ppm is about 5 times the lowest level needed for masks

when you are warned and you decided to endanger your family dont say I did not warn you
Why don't I? Because I went through this before, I made my points, I've made the pertinent points again, and I have better things to do.

I won't say you did not warn me. I also won't say the weather radio didn't warn me, that the asbestos freaks didn't warn me, the lead freaks didn't warn me, the radon freaks didn't warn me, the TSA didn't warn me, Bush didn't warn me, Obama didn't warn me, my aunt Mae didn't warn me, Fred Flintstone didn't warn me, Lassie didn't warn me, and those people who said my palm would get hairy didn't warn me.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:58 PM
 
16,305 posts, read 21,582,105 times
Reputation: 8181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andros 1337 View Post
Okay, you have crossed the line. God knows there is nothing rigged about this test, yet you fabricate your own arguments why ionization is better. We don't need any of your BS.
Show me any smoke or CO detector that says the floor is an approved location for the detector, then we will discuss this further. Until then this is more a demonstration of where NOT to mount it than the type to use.
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