U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 10-10-2011, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,351,797 times
Reputation: 4131

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post

Granted, I realize the OP probably didn't mean a "magical" type of immortality, and even explained that in the first post, mentioning realistically living just a few thousand years and not literally "forever". My post was really just speculation, and me typing a thought I recently had. You know, for fun.
Being the OP let me clarify what I mean by the statement "I want to live forever".

Do I really think I want to live forever? My initial thought is no as forever is a long time and thinking in today's society nothing lasts forever. That being said I know I do not want to die anytime soon and would defiantly take that as thousands if not a million of years out. Why? There is so much to see and do in our galaxy alone let alone the rest of the universe I just don't see how I could get bored with life in that span. Once I reach a million years old and if I am in good health if I feel there is more to do then and it is possible I will go for another million years. This goes with what Ray says about living forever. There is no one answer that will allow someone to accomplish that. There are bridges to another bridge that in time will keep someone living for a very long time and who knows maybe in the far future technology will be at the point that hearing the word forever wont seem so out of place like it does today. Does that seem like magic? Sure to us it does but by then it won't, it will be a part of every day life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-10-2011, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,351,797 times
Reputation: 4131
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
To me, the subject seems more of a 'what if' kind of fantasy. The only 'objection' I had was that you didn't particularly stipulate that you were talking about "biological immortality" (sort of similar to the Highlander). The definition of being immortal simply describes it as being immune from death. No need to take the objection seriously. It was meant more in the line of humor. What you mean by biological immortality is probably 'indefinite longevity'. I'd still stand on my point though. If you can die, you aren't immortal.

I agree that such a scenario as eliminating the aging process indefinitely is unlikely. Even if it were possible to have the potential to never die of old age, there are problems that can interfere with such a grand plan, especially if you can die in other ways. If nothing else, I would think the longer you live, the more likely it is that something will eventually bring about your demise. One way to potentially escape problems (like bleeding to death, being burned up by the sun, etc.) is if you could transfer all the information ever gathered by your brain, and artifically store it in some kind of computer system with a completely artifical body, like some kind of android, you could potentially survive indefinitely, barring some unforeseen accident that would bring it all to an end. If you can live long enough for the sun to create a potential problem (a few billion uears from now), we'd probably have the technology to have long abandoned the Earth, and either terraform or simply occupy some other habitable planet, create an artificial 'planet', or just become nomadic space travelers in planet sized spacecrafts, only stopping to gather materials when needed and where it can be found to extract. Presumably, you'd be able to replace all parts as needed. In the near future? Probably not. In a few hundred, thousand, million, or billion years from now? Who knows? It might very well be possible to indefinitely extend longevity in the future. That longevity would most likely be in a very different, artificial form, perhaps mechanical.

Even if you could somehow manage to avoid accidents and live for a profound period of time, as you point out, the end of the universe would have the last word about such immortality. Entropy would see an end to that. An exception would be if there are other universes in addition to ours (a multiverse), can figure out which other universes are young enough and suitable enough to occupy, and can figure out a way to get there well before ours comes to a final end.
That is my point about a bridge to a bride to a bridge etc........ There is no one answer but you live long enough to make it to the next bridge so the result is you live "forever" even though there is no 100% guarantee.

Also, once we completely reverse engineer the brain in 2029 we should know what our consciousnesses is and can work on how to transfer that into a computer that could possibly be like "Data" from Star Trek but way more advanced. Imagine being able to pick out your own body? That is just one idea of course and many not be the most logical but the main point is once we have reversed engineered the brain many options will be open to use that the world in 2045 will be vastly different then it is now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-31-2011, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,351,797 times
Reputation: 4131
Exclamation 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

There was a great article in Time Magazine about living forever. It really went into detail about the next 35 years and what we can expect. This is defiantly the best time to be alive as we will see more changes in the next 35 years then human civilization had in the thousands of years prior to 2012. Or what I call the start of the road to the singularity. That is because as of now we are building main frame computers that are as intelligent as a single human. So this is not theory on what could happen but it is happening as we speak.

This is from the article:


The difficult thing to keep sight of when you're talking about the Singularity is that even though it sounds like science fiction, it isn't, no more than a weather forecast is science fiction. It's not a fringe idea; it's a serious hypothesis about the future of life on Earth. There's an intellectual gag reflex that kicks in anytime you try to swallow an idea that involves super-intelligent immortal cyborgs, but suppress it if you can, because while the Singularity appears to be, on the face of it, preposterous, it's an idea that rewards sober, careful evaluation.

Read more: Singularity: Kurzweil on 2045, When Humans, Machines Merge - TIME

Last edited by Josseppie; 10-31-2011 at 10:22 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2011, 07:53 AM
 
13,140 posts, read 35,978,090 times
Reputation: 12074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
There was a great article in Time Magazine about living forever. It really went into detail about the next 35 years and what we can expect. This is defiantly the best time to be alive as we will see more changes in the next 35 years then human civilization had in the thousands of years prior to 2012. Or what I call the start of the road to the singularity. That is because as of now we are building main frame computers that are as intelligent as a single human. So this is not theory on what could happen but it is happening as we speak.

This is from the article:


The difficult thing to keep sight of when you're talking about the Singularity is that even though it sounds like science fiction, it isn't, no more than a weather forecast is science fiction. It's not a fringe idea; it's a serious hypothesis about the future of life on Earth. There's an intellectual gag reflex that kicks in anytime you try to swallow an idea that involves super-intelligent immortal cyborgs, but suppress it if you can, because while the Singularity appears to be, on the face of it, preposterous, it's an idea that rewards sober, careful evaluation.

Read more: Singularity: Kurzweil on 2045, When Humans, Machines Merge - TIME
Kurweil wrote a great book called 'Fantastic Voyage, Live Long Enough To Live Forever'' implying that if we can survive the next 30 years or so'ish of accidents, disease, murder etc. then we'll be able to enjoy the benefits of the futuristic medicines and technologies that will alow us to not only surpass the 120 year mark but to also be free of ''old age'' .

So in other words at 110 yeas old (young ) i might be able to go to the park and play full court basketball against the 20 somethings in the 2070's/2080's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2011, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 2,505,892 times
Reputation: 833

In The Year 2525 /w Lyrics - YouTube
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2011, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,351,797 times
Reputation: 4131
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
Kurweil wrote a great book called 'Fantastic Voyage, Live Long Enough To Live Forever'' implying that if we can survive the next 30 years or so'ish of accidents, disease, murder etc. then we'll be able to enjoy the benefits of the futuristic medicines and technologies that will alow us to not only surpass the 120 year mark but to also be free of ''old age'' .

So in other words at 110 yeas old (young ) i might be able to go to the park and play full court basketball against the 20 somethings in the 2070's/2080's
He, also, wrote the book "The Singularity is Near" and a documentary about him and that book was called Transcended Man.

My understanding is we don't have to wait 35 years for the science to help us live forever. 2045 is when the singularity is here. That is when a single 1,000 dollar computers will be as intelligent as the entire human race combined. However things will be improving now till then so I argue that we are in the "gravitational pull" of the singularity as of 2012. The reason is in 2012 super computers will come on line that will be as intelligent as a single human. That takes what Ray is talking about out of the theoretical and into the practical. Now it will be a matter of the technology shrinking and being affordable for us as well as the software that needs to be developed so we can fully utilize the computers. That should happen by 2019 and then in the next decade they should shrink to the size of a blood cell and the cost will come down enough so we can have thousands if not millions in our body's to help our immune system and cognitive ability. This is a great time to be alive..............
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2011, 11:00 AM
 
4,983 posts, read 7,762,252 times
Reputation: 2864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
That is my point about a bridge to a bride to a bridge etc........ There is no one answer but you live long enough to make it to the next bridge so the result is you live "forever" even though there is no 100% guarantee.

Also, once we completely reverse engineer the brain in 2029 we should know what our consciousnesses is and can work on how to transfer that into a computer that could possibly be like "Data" from Star Trek but way more advanced. Imagine being able to pick out your own body? That is just one idea of course and many not be the most logical but the main point is once we have reversed engineered the brain many options will be open to use that the world in 2045 will be vastly different then it is now.
Extending lifespan isn't so much an issue. Whether the brain can be fully reverse engineered or accurately mapped by 2029 remains to be seen. As I understand there are millions if not billions of neurons and trillions of synapses.

To live "forever" is figurative at best. Suppose we figure out how to completely transfer your consciousness into a computer, then transfer it into another body, or even an android. While your digitized consciousness might still work, it's fair to say would you still really be you? Suppose both you and an android that has your memories and consciousness installed both exist at the same time. Thought patterns would drastically change. The android might well understand that it is just a copy of the original, but would make its own life and have its own perspectives from that point forward. You and it would not think the same, so both could not be use, unless there was some kind of permanent link between the two of you. In other words, each would have their own individual sense of self-identity. We we assume further and say that the biological you eventually dies, leaving the android to continue on, then YOU would no longer exist, in which case the android can't be you because the android would have it's own self-identity instead of your self-identity. You still won't live forever with such a scenario. Okay, let's assume that all your biological parts are gradually replaced until your body is completely artificial. Then you might have a case of still being you.

"Curiosity" on the Discovery Channel recently featured Adam Savage. The subject was "Can You Live Forever?" Although several potential techniques were used, what I thought was most interesting was being able to regenerate your own body parts, and having nano machines in your system that are on patrol and attack any diseases, and repair any body parts that wear out. Further, they would constantly be ensuring that your body doesn't wear out at all because its constantly being regenerated, right down to genetic repair or modification. Interestingly, the capacity of your own brain would eventually reach a point of maximum information thsat it store. You'd have to download at least part of it every so often to external storage devices.

In any case, even if you could live for billions or trillions of years, the life of the universe itself would have the last word, assuming that it would eventually come to an end. Unless you can find a safe haven beyond the universe, your goose is eventally cooked in terms of longevity. While that may be a mind-boggling distance off in the future, it's a far cry from "forever". But for all intents and purposes it might seem like forever, but it's not. As the universe gradually dies, so will you, but by then you probably wouldn't know the difference or even care.

Curiosity Videos: Can you live forever? - Curiosity
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2011, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,351,797 times
Reputation: 4131
A lot of what you talk about is something that will have to be handled with in the future. The key now is to be able to live long enough to be around to have that discussion. Why can't we have it now? We are not there yet, technologically speaking. We need to reverse engineer the brain before we know what can be done. Currently its all theory and speculation. I do agree a "clone" is not the answer as that is nothing more then a twin rather its biological or computer based. One idea would be to transfer your consciousness into another body or machine so there is nothing left in your current body but a shell. So its like you went to sleep in your body and woke up in the new one. As of right now we would not have a clue if that is possible and if it is possible how until we reverse engineer the brain and figure out what our consciousness is. Hopefully science can do that by 2029 like Ray says and he backs it up with some good data so I have no reason to not believe him.

As far as the universe coming to a end. If we can get this advanced since the first computer was built in 1890 (that is only 155 years to 2045 when the singularity is here) imagine what we can accomplish is the billions of years before the universe is to end? So that is not something I am worried about. One the topics Ray says in his movie it that once we get to 2045 the universe will wake up. Perhaps, and this is just speculation on my part, humanity will be the reason the universe will not end and like us will last forever.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2011, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,351,797 times
Reputation: 4131
In my opinion the most important science project in the history of human kind is the Blue Brain Project. This project is one of the reasons we will live for a very long time as what we learn will help change how we build computers, develop drugs etc.

This is from Wiki:

The Blue Brain Project is an attempt to create a synthetic brain by reverse-engineering the mammalian brain down to the molecular level. The aim of the project is to study the brain's architectural and functional principles. The project is headed by the Institute's director, Henry Markra. Using a Blue Gene supercomputer running Michael Hines's NEURON software, the simulation does not consist simply of an artificial neural network, but involves a biologically realistic model of neurons. It is hoped that it will eventually shed light on the nature of consciousness.


The link: Blue Brain Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Below is a link to a brief documentary on the project. It is fantastic and gives a great look into the projects goals and timetable. I highly recommend anyone interested in this topic look at it!


Bluebrain | Year One on Vimeo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2011, 05:33 PM
 
4,983 posts, read 7,762,252 times
Reputation: 2864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
One the topics Ray says in his movie it that once we get to 2045 the universe will wake up. Perhaps, and this is just speculation on my part, humanity will be the reason the universe will not end and like us will last forever.
The universe will wake up and last forever because of human beings? I think that was probably meant figuratively, not literal. There are any number of events that could occur in which humanity would become part of the fossil record and join the numerous other extinct lifeforms.

While some people may think of humans as being vitally important in the overall scheme of the cosmos, we are only important to ourselves. Our existence, and the planet we live on are insignificant, almost meaningless, to the universe.

Take a look at the link below to reflect on how humbling the view is. It's a photo of the Earth as seen by the Cassini probe from Saturn. See that tiny little dot? That's Earth. Saturn is a long way out, but far from being anywhere near the outermost limit of the solar system. Now, imagine what you would see from the 'edge' of the galaxy? And the size of our galaxy is practically invisible from the far reaches of the observable universe. Its all about perspective. Don't get me wrong, we'll still make some remarkable accomplishments. But it's only remarkable to us.

The universe will do whatever it does, whether we continue to exist or not. Even if we survive for billions of years, we'll still have no say in what course the universe ultimately takes. If the space of the universe continues expanding indefinitely, we'll eventually cease to exist. If it collapses back in on itself, we'll still perish.

A View of Earth from Saturn : Image of the Day
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top