Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-22-2014, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,259 posts, read 24,359,132 times
Reputation: 4395

Advertisements

People constantly tell me I am wrong when I say that we will live "forever" and life expectancy will no longer be a metric we use stating in the 2020's. Yet I know this is going to be the case and as time goes on more and more evidence comes out to support what I have been saying.

This is the latest one. As soon as I saw it I had to post it!

This is from Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies:


Welcome to the incredible world of innovative anti-aging healthcare, which growing numbers of future followers believe will become widely available and affordable as we move through the next decade.

With new clinical trials popping up almost daily, experts predict that by early-to-mid 2020s, doctors will use stem cells loaded with non-degrading telomeres, along with low-cost 3D bioprinters to replace aging skin and strengthen frail bones and muscles. These replacements promise to cure or make manageable most of today's age-related illnesses, including heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and most brain disorders.

The link: 2020s Biotech: better health, say goodbye to most age-related deaths

Last edited by Josseppie; 05-22-2014 at 07:10 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-23-2014, 12:22 AM
 
86 posts, read 78,495 times
Reputation: 49
wonderful . . . . (underwhelmed)

So, with incredible amounts of time at everyone's disposal, what will happen? Will we become a better society?

Oh - leave babies out. No room for them. If people don't die, then people can't be allowed to be born! IF ANY babies are allowed, it will need to be by government license or mandate, NOT the desires of the people who WANT babies - and someone will have to die to make room for them, if there are to be any. You KNOW that is true - it is unavoidable!

And who will that government that makes such life and death decisions be run by? Corrupt, aggressive people will ALWAYS find their way into positions of power, if circumstances permit, and unlimited time = unlimited circumstances. In this post singularity scenario, Corrupt people WILL run the world. Guaranteed. THEY will decide who lives and who dies - as someone MUST die, if THEIR family and friends want to have children. And of course, their political enemies will be terminated too. That's what corrupt rulers end up doing. So scratch free thought. Whatever the issue might be, you will agree, or you will be terminated. So much for immortality!

And in a world where people CAN live forever, and corrupt rulers are guaranteed, what will those who are not members of the privileged class be? SLAVES . . . uh . . . worse yet, ETERNAL SLAVES!

So do all you can to bring it about - donate money to the cause, tell everyone the wonderful news, tell everyone who doesn't agree what idiots they are. And when your cause is won, enjoy your singularity, Forever, and ever, and ever, and ever. Sounds like fun . . . . no, actually, it sounds like the worst nightmare I can even begin to imagine - with no waking up afterward. It literally sounds like HELL!

Interesting, the BIBLE tells of a time, in the end-times, when people will WANT to die, but won't be ABLE to . . .

Speaking of which, did you know that Jesus offers eternal life too - in PARADISE? I think I'll take my chances with HIM!

He said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, NO MAN comes to the Father but by me." . . and . . "behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

THAT'S where the party's gonna be! And you are invited . . . . (RSVP to him via direct communication link)

Last edited by DoTheMath7; 05-23-2014 at 12:45 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2014, 03:53 AM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,298 posts, read 14,104,781 times
Reputation: 8104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
Without jobs, the economy will collapse. With no means to be able to pay for anything, all of this tech will be moot, as very few will be able to take advantage of it. I just hope the pace of development slows dramatically, like past the mid 2050's (estimated time of my passing) so I don't have to witness the meltdown of our society, which WILL happen once we reach this so-called "singularity."

Hopefully I'll have a couple more decades of being able to enjoy nature and human interaction before the Borg takes over...lol. I can understand why this would scare people. Why I study it so much so I can be as prepared as possible because like it or not it will happen.




The entire nature of the economy is going to change by the singularity its just no one knows exactly how. I have seen some good theories on how but they are just theories. I am even leaning towards something called basic pay for all and it could be paid for in part by taxing the robots since they are taking peoples jobs. The question I have is how to do you have that and still have a incentive for people to work? I do not know the answer.
......
Switzerland already has been debating the institution of a basic guaranteed income, enough to barely get by in that expensive country.

Basically, if we work together as a society all these advancements might mean the end of a need to work. "From each according to ability, to each according to need." That doesn't mean that all people will choose to slack off and do nothing - although some would. Most people WANT to be doing something creative or expanding the frontiers of knowledge, whether it's in the arts, sciences, or literature - and they would have the leisure time to do so. Michio Kaku gives his own job as an example in Physics of the Future - most physics researchers could get higher paying jobs in private industry, but love their work too much to do so.

I'm sure that level of advancement (replicators etc) won't take place for at least a hundred years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2014, 03:58 AM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,298 posts, read 14,104,781 times
Reputation: 8104
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoTheMath7 View Post
......Oh - leave babies out. No room for them. If people don't die, then people can't be allowed to be born! IF ANY babies are allowed, it will need to be by government license or mandate, NOT the desires of the people who WANT babies - and someone will have to die to make room for them, if there are to be any. You KNOW that is true - it is unavoidable!
.......
That is not likely to become a problem. When a society becomes affluent, the birthrates fall dramatically since people don't need children to support them in old age, and because women really don't enjoy popping out and caring for large numbers of babies. In Europe and Japan, the birthrate has fallen to below the rate at which the population holds steady ...... which is why they import such large numbers of workers from thirdworld countries. In the US, we would also be below that replacement if it weren't for the large numbers of immigrants.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2014, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Allendale MI
2,523 posts, read 2,193,079 times
Reputation: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoTheMath7 View Post
wonderful . . . . (underwhelmed)

So, with incredible amounts of time at everyone's disposal, what will happen? Will we become a better society?

Oh - leave babies out. No room for them. If people don't die, then people can't be allowed to be born! IF ANY babies are allowed, it will need to be by government license or mandate, NOT the desires of the people who WANT babies - and someone will have to die to make room for them, if there are to be any. You KNOW that is true - it is unavoidable!

And who will that government that makes such life and death decisions be run by? Corrupt, aggressive people will ALWAYS find their way into positions of power, if circumstances permit, and unlimited time = unlimited circumstances. In this post singularity scenario, Corrupt people WILL run the world. Guaranteed. THEY will decide who lives and who dies - as someone MUST die, if THEIR family and friends want to have children. And of course, their political enemies will be terminated too. That's what corrupt rulers end up doing. So scratch free thought. Whatever the issue might be, you will agree, or you will be terminated. So much for immortality!

And in a world where people CAN live forever, and corrupt rulers are guaranteed, what will those who are not members of the privileged class be? SLAVES . . . uh . . . worse yet, ETERNAL SLAVES!

So do all you can to bring it about - donate money to the cause, tell everyone the wonderful news, tell everyone who doesn't agree what idiots they are. And when your cause is won, enjoy your singularity, Forever, and ever, and ever, and ever. Sounds like fun . . . . no, actually, it sounds like the worst nightmare I can even begin to imagine - with no waking up afterward. It literally sounds like HELL!

Interesting, the BIBLE tells of a time, in the end-times, when people will WANT to die, but won't be ABLE to . . .

Speaking of which, did you know that Jesus offers eternal life too - in PARADISE? I think I'll take my chances with HIM!

He said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, NO MAN comes to the Father but by me." . . and . . "behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

THAT'S where the party's gonna be! And you are invited . . . . (RSVP to him via direct communication link)
You go do that then.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2014, 10:24 AM
 
86 posts, read 78,495 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
That is not likely to become a problem. When a society becomes affluent, the birthrates fall dramatically since people don't need children to support them in old age, and because women really don't enjoy popping out and caring for large numbers of babies. In Europe and Japan, the birthrate has fallen to below the rate at which the population holds steady ...... which is why they import such large numbers of workers from thirdworld countries. In the US, we would also be below that replacement if it weren't for the large numbers of immigrants.
So - children are there only to support parents in old age? You see no delight in little ones?

And "women don't really enjoy popping out and caring for large numbers of babies . . . " Who said anything about "large numbers of babies?" The population problem, as it stands, is inevitable with any more than 2 children per 2 adults on average - and that assumes that the adults are going to die. Take that death factor away, totally, and ANY children WILL become a problem.

I don't know what your circle of female friends is like, but just about every woman I know (who is a mother) DELIGHTS in their children and wouldn't exchange their children for all the riches in the world; and where I hear such discussions, they would gladly give their own lives for the sake of their children, if needed. So your rather crass assessment falls a bit short.

I'm guessing that you, like myself, are not a woman.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2014, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,259 posts, read 24,359,132 times
Reputation: 4395
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoTheMath7 View Post
wonderful . . . . (underwhelmed)

So, with incredible amounts of time at everyone's disposal, what will happen? Will we become a better society?

Oh - leave babies out. No room for them. If people don't die, then people can't be allowed to be born! IF ANY babies are allowed, it will need to be by government license or mandate, NOT the desires of the people who WANT babies - and someone will have to die to make room for them, if there are to be any. You KNOW that is true - it is unavoidable!

And who will that government that makes such life and death decisions be run by? Corrupt, aggressive people will ALWAYS find their way into positions of power, if circumstances permit, and unlimited time = unlimited circumstances. In this post singularity scenario, Corrupt people WILL run the world. Guaranteed. THEY will decide who lives and who dies - as someone MUST die, if THEIR family and friends want to have children. And of course, their political enemies will be terminated too. That's what corrupt rulers end up doing. So scratch free thought. Whatever the issue might be, you will agree, or you will be terminated. So much for immortality!

And in a world where people CAN live forever, and corrupt rulers are guaranteed, what will those who are not members of the privileged class be? SLAVES . . . uh . . . worse yet, ETERNAL SLAVES!

So do all you can to bring it about - donate money to the cause, tell everyone the wonderful news, tell everyone who doesn't agree what idiots they are. And when your cause is won, enjoy your singularity, Forever, and ever, and ever, and ever. Sounds like fun . . . . no, actually, it sounds like the worst nightmare I can even begin to imagine - with no waking up afterward. It literally sounds like HELL!

Interesting, the BIBLE tells of a time, in the end-times, when people will WANT to die, but won't be ABLE to . . .

Speaking of which, did you know that Jesus offers eternal life too - in PARADISE? I think I'll take my chances with HIM!

He said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, NO MAN comes to the Father but by me." . . and . . "behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

THAT'S where the party's gonna be! And you are invited . . . . (RSVP to him via direct communication link)
I understand the idea of the singularity is scary for some people. Change is always that way. Why I bring it up now so people can be ready because like it or not it will happen and in the next 16 years.

BTW there will be more then enough land for everyone because we will have the technology to leave the planet and live on other planets. There is more then enough real estate in this solar system for any kind of growth we could see let alone the universe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2014, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,259 posts, read 24,359,132 times
Reputation: 4395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Switzerland already has been debating the institution of a basic guaranteed income, enough to barely get by in that expensive country.

Basically, if we work together as a society all these advancements might mean the end of a need to work. "From each according to ability, to each according to need." That doesn't mean that all people will choose to slack off and do nothing - although some would. Most people WANT to be doing something creative or expanding the frontiers of knowledge, whether it's in the arts, sciences, or literature - and they would have the leisure time to do so. Michio Kaku gives his own job as an example in Physics of the Future - most physics researchers could get higher paying jobs in private industry, but love their work too much to do so.

I'm sure that level of advancement (replicators etc) won't take place for at least a hundred years.
I think we will see more and more countries have a basic pay. How to set it up right though is something I am not sure how to do.


Everything I keep seeing is that we will have replicators in less then 20 years. In fact the article I posted says we will be able to 3D print any organ in less then 10 years. Think about that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2014, 12:31 PM
 
86 posts, read 78,495 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigantown View Post
You go do that then.

(in reference to my statement: Speaking of which, did you know that Jesus offers eternal life too - in PARADISE? I think I'll take my chances with HIM!)
You bet I will!! I would much rather be inside the Gates of the Kingdom of Light where God dwells, than "in the outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth." (quote from Jesus).

People often say that "we make our own heaven or hell." Well, as I mentioned earlier (oops - in another thread (**)), we CAN'T "make our own heaven," or for that matter, even enter into it on our own, BUT we DO seem to have the capability of making our own hell, and the "singularity" would be an EXCELLENT start - maybe even "the whole ball of (melting) wax!"

_______________

** The previous mention boils down to this: "Flawed materials, methodology OR information will ALWAYS produce FLAWED results." Since Heaven is a Perfect Paradise and true immortality requires perfection, we, who are imperfect, CANNOT create either one.

God can!

I once heard a really good explanation for why "TIME FLIES" particularly fast when you get old. I think it is true, and quite pertinent to the discussion.

Our experience of time is relative to that which we have already experienced. For a 5 year old, waiting from Christmas to Christmas, or birthday to birthday, that one-year span of time is a LONG TIME! Do you remember those days? But now that I am over 60, the years seem to go by in a flash. Why? For the 5 year-old, a year is 1/5 of his/her TOTAL time experience, whereas for me, it is only 1/60, hence it seems far shorter.

Now - to extrapolate that out a bit beyond personal experience, what do you suppose a year would seem like to a person who is, say 1,000 years old? Might it almost seem to be the same as a day does to you now?

And in my general experience, people who live reasonably well don't want to die - at ANY age.

So, it seems to me that 1) People ALL live to the same RELATIVE age - ONE LIFETIME, then they/we all die. And 2) When the time comes to die, unless they have had a particularly rough life, they are almost never ready to go. They still long for a continuation. Do you think any of that would change if you lived to be 1500 years old?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
I understand the idea of the singularity is scary for some people. Change is always that way. Why I bring it up now so people can be ready because like it or not it will happen and in the next 16 years.

BTW there will be more then enough land for everyone because we will have the technology to leave the planet and live on other planets. There is more then enough real estate in this solar system for any kind of growth we could see let alone the universe.
"BTW there will be more [than] enough land for everyone . . " ?

You DO have a LOT of faith! Getting individual explorers to Mars is proving to be quite a challenge. But I will grant you, a space colony on Mars is not entirely inconceivable. Venus, on the other hand, with surface temps over 800 deg and extreme atmospheric pressures (and sulfuric acid rain) IS inconceivable, and so are planets on either side of those two neighbors.

So it becomes a race against the Earth-annihilation clock - can we develop the technology and get to Mars and establish an AUTONOMOUS colony before that much anticipated "Extinction-level event" takes place here on Earth? And how safe would that colony be on Mars? To begin with, it is guaranteed to be far more fragile than civilization on Earth, and there is MUCH MORE bombardment activity there (it is far closer to the Asteroid Belt, you know)!

So your easy answer (or Michio Kaku's, as the case may be) seems quite tenuous at best.

Speaking of asteroids impacting Earth, do you suppose this Revelation prophecy might be referring to such? :

"Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed."
(Revelation 8:8-9)

Seems pretty remarkable that "ignorant Bronze-Age shepherds" would be able to describe so well something that they had never experienced, but that modern science counts as being not only likely, but inevitable.

Last edited by Yac; 05-27-2014 at 06:54 AM.. Reason: 3 posts in a row merged
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2014, 03:14 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,298 posts, read 14,104,781 times
Reputation: 8104
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoTheMath7 View Post
So - children are there only to support parents in old age? You see no delight in little ones?

And "women don't really enjoy popping out and caring for large numbers of babies . . . " Who said anything about "large numbers of babies?" The population problem, as it stands, is inevitable with any more than 2 children per 2 adults on average - and that assumes that the adults are going to die. Take that death factor away, totally, and ANY children WILL become a problem.

I don't know what your circle of female friends is like, but just about every woman I know (who is a mother) DELIGHTS in their children and wouldn't exchange their children for all the riches in the world; and where I hear such discussions, they would gladly give their own lives for the sake of their children, if needed. So your rather crass assessment falls a bit short.

I'm guessing that you, like myself, are not a woman.
I love kids, as long as someone else takes care of them.

It's a simple matter of observation that women start choosing to have fewer children as they become more financially secure ...... as I mentioned, that trend is already showing up in Europe and Japan. That has nothing to do with my personal desires.

Even if we get to the point of great longevity, there will still be accidents and complications from surgery/drugs to kill off a certain percentage, so it wouldn't be immortality for everyone. Also until the institution of at least a very high degree of socialism or communism, most people wouldn't be able to afford the treatments except for some supplements and drugs. So we've got a long way to go before we would need to actively restrict childbirth ...... hopefully we will find a way to deal with overpopulation by then.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top