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Old 03-01-2012, 01:47 AM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,313 posts, read 10,627,990 times
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Superintelligence in computers is certainly possible, at least in some areas of intelligence. I think that new Iphone or whatever it is, has a type of simple artificial intelligence in the form of some chick's voice answering questions. Siri http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siri_(software) . It's more intelligent in some few ways than the average human.

The problem is: who controls that impending artificial intelligence? Who are the powers of society that determine what can be done with such devices? There are thirdworld tyrants, and in our firstworld nations the govts tend to be controlled by either corporatocracies, or a democratic electorate of limited average intelligence. What will they allow? Will they give up their elitism to use the new technologies to benefit everyone?

Or as countless science fiction stories have suggested ........ will superintelligent computers take the reigns of political control away from humans for their own good, at least as the computers define "good"? I actually don't see how that could be avoided if computers become sentient, and then control the world's purse strings through the internet so as to pay technicians, politicians, police forces, and soldiers to do their bidding?

And how exactly do we know that isn't happening quietly right now ........
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
12,259 posts, read 16,403,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
My grandfathers generation saw a lot of changes, he was born in 1918. When he was a kid he would ride on a horse and buck board every Sunday with his family for a picnic north of Pueblo. When he died in 1983 he was driving a luxory car, Buick Electra, with all the bells and wistles of the time and lived in a home he had built in 1960 that was very modern for its day and he had traveled to Europe a few times on a jet. However the changes his generation experienced is nothing like what we are experiencing now. I am 38 years old and the changes I have already seen in my lifetime are amazing and this is noting to what is coming in the next 10 to 30 years. Right now there is a project called the Blue Brain Project that is the most important science project in the history of human kind, at least in my opinion. it will be complected by 2019 and will tell us how the human brain works down to the molecular level. By then computes will be fast enough to simulate the human brain and AI will really take off. I have the I phone 4 with seri and this will be seen as the first phone with AI but wait 5 to 10 years and AI will be just as intelligent as we are. I could go on but ya we have not seen anything yet.....
Still, going from a cord and land-line to app-heavy wireless cellphones isn't as big of a cultural jump as going from no phone to the ability to talk to whoever you want around the world at the spin of a dial. I'm 34 here and yea, there have been lots of changes, but nothing like going from a horse and buggy, outhouse and candlelight to globalization and modern automobile suburbia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
This is a main reason why most people don't believe the coming singularity is near. In the past people have not understood how computes advanced so in the 50's and 60's they had outrages claims not based on science. It was not really till mores law that they started to understand how computers advanced. Even then it took a while to really get a hold of it and to this day some scientists do not get it but most do.
It's not even necessarily the technology that's the problem; its the actual market value of the technology. We can build robots that can clean our house and cook us dinner with current technology... but a robot maid would be incredibly expensive and could never compete economically with a real human immigrant maid for 6 bucks an hour.

As far as AI computers go.... I'm sure someone will build one in a lab eventually but you will never be able to go out and buy one at Walmart because very few people would actually want a sentient computer. The last thing I would want my chainsaw to do is ask me why the sky is blue or question whether it should cut down trees or not, and having Hal at home adjusting my lights and talking to me is just plain creepy.

Tools are meant to be tools, not entities... and they will stay that way because that's what humans want.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:30 AM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,313 posts, read 10,627,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
....
It's not even necessarily the technology that's the problem; its the actual market value of the technology. We can build robots that can clean our house and cook us dinner with current technology... but a robot maid would be incredibly expensive and could never compete economically with a real human immigrant maid for 6 bucks an hour.
roomba

Quote:
As far as AI computers go.... I'm sure someone will build one in a lab eventually but you will never be able to go out and buy one at Walmart because very few people would actually want a sentient computer. The last thing I would want my chainsaw to do is ask me why the sky is blue or question whether it should cut down trees or not, and having Hal at home adjusting my lights and talking to me is just plain creepy.

Tools are meant to be tools, not entities... and they will stay that way because that's what humans want.
Siri.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:32 AM
 
4,533 posts, read 6,924,233 times
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
roomba

Siri.
I think was was being suggested regarding a "maid" is one that conducts multiple household chores, wash the dishes, cook meals, makes the bed, cleans the windows, dusts cabinets and furniture, feeds the dog, shops for groceries, etc. Roomba isn't intelligent and does only one thing. It's a floor sweeper which is programmed to move in random directions after reaching or bumping into a boundary, wall, or a carpeted surface. and only works on hard floor surfaces. I think most are programmed to return to their power supply station when the battery needs to be recharged. Roomba is robotic, but not exactly a substitute for a maid. I wonder how long a Roomba lasts before they finally break down and stop working, requiring the necessity to buy another one or replace it?

Siri uses a form of AI, but it's not something you're going to mistakenly think is another human and start carrying on an indepth conversation with it.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:29 AM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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Well sure, Night, but things have to start somewhere - you don't get a full scale robot to begin with, nor an omniscient personal assistant - and those beginnings have turned out to be quite popular and affordable. Roombas less than $200, iPhone 4s starting at $199 plus wireless and data plan.

The reviews of Siri indicate that it's amazingly good at carrying on simple conversations relating to the task at hand using ordinary language (ie "give me a list of pizza parlors within a mile" or "remind me to call Debbie at noon concerning the Smith account"). That involves extraordinarily complex algorithms, I certainly didn't expect such a milestone to be passed within my lifetime.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
11,739 posts, read 18,317,370 times
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Originally Posted by 11thHour View Post
From the time I first heard of this concept it has fascinated me. I'm especially intrigued by technological singularity. Like someone above me said, I think people vastly overestimate the timeline needed for such things to occur. I brought this subject up one time at work, and yeah..they were completely lost. It was like I was speaking Greek. They only care about the current sports games. Sigh.. Anyway, barring some catastrophic event such as a meteor strike or a world wide nuclear war, I think humanity will eventually get to the point they will work together towards such a goal

Btw, can anybody recommend any good books on these subjects?
The Singularity is Near by Ray Kurzweil is a good book and there is a documentary called Transcended man.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
11,739 posts, read 18,317,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Well sure, Night, but things have to start somewhere - you don't get a full scale robot to begin with, nor an omniscient personal assistant - and those beginnings have turned out to be quite popular and affordable. Roombas less than $200, iPhone 4s starting at $199 plus wireless and data plan.

The reviews of Siri indicate that it's amazingly good at carrying on simple conversations relating to the task at hand using ordinary language (ie "give me a list of pizza parlors within a mile" or "remind me to call Debbie at noon concerning the Smith account"). That involves extraordinarily complex algorithms, I certainly didn't expect such a milestone to be passed within my lifetime.
This is true. Remember the first cell phones in the 80's or what computers were like? I can go on and on. Give it a few years and we will be having conversations with our computer.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
11,739 posts, read 18,317,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Still, going from a cord and land-line to app-heavy wireless cellphones isn't as big of a cultural jump as going from no phone to the ability to talk to whoever you want around the world at the spin of a dial. I'm 34 here and yea, there have been lots of changes, but nothing like going from a horse and buggy, outhouse and candlelight to globalization and modern automobile suburbia.
You are comparing a lifetime to 30 years or so. When my grandfather was my age is was the 1940's and while they had advanced a lot they had not advanced as much as the world since I was born, 1973. The next 30 years will see even more dramatic improvements in technology, more so then any generation before us.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
It's not even necessarily the technology that's the problem; its the actual market value of the technology. We can build robots that can clean our house and cook us dinner with current technology... but a robot maid would be incredibly expensive and could never compete economically with a real human immigrant maid for 6 bucks an hour.

As far as AI computers go.... I'm sure someone will build one in a lab eventually but you will never be able to go out and buy one at Walmart because very few people would actually want a sentient computer. The last thing I would want my chainsaw to do is ask me why the sky is blue or question whether it should cut down trees or not, and having Hal at home adjusting my lights and talking to me is just plain creepy.

Tools are meant to be tools, not entities... and they will stay that way because that's what humans want.
If you don't want one the good news is you wont have to buy one. I can honestly say I want one plus its not like its going to be these separate computers but part of us as well. It will change society in ways we can't begin to know now.
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:38 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Sounds like fringe science to me.
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
11,739 posts, read 18,317,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Sounds like fringe science to me.
This is from Time Magazine:



The difficult thing to keep sight of when you're talking about the Singularity is that even though it sounds like science fiction, it isn't, no more than a weather forecast is science fiction. It's not a fringe idea; it's a serious hypothesis about the future of life on Earth. There's an intellectual gag reflex that kicks in anytime you try to swallow an idea that involves super-intelligent immortal cyborgs, but suppress it if you can, because while the Singularity appears to be, on the face of it, preposterous, it's an idea that rewards sober, careful evaluation.

The link: Singularity: Kurzweil on 2045, When Humans, Machines Merge -- Printout -- TIME

So it is coming and we even know the when. The cool thing is we won't have to wait till 2045 to see the results but as it gets closer things will change and inventions will bring more and more fun games like AI and VR.
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