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Old 03-13-2012, 07:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
In some ways it wont be like a invading race as they will be part of us. I know I plan on integrating computers in me to enhance my cognitive ability. So in a way it will be a extension of us. I do agree there will be AI and in some way that does scare me and in someways I am excited.
I came across this recently, and thought you might appreciate it. Of course, this is only fiction, but it does make one stop and think about the future of robotics, or to be more precise, androids. What if a humanoid machine began to think it was not a machine, but was someone who's alive?

This was made for the Sony PlayStation 3, but as far as I know, it's just a concept demo that could be used as a model for video games, motion pictures, etc. Most attempt at creating human-like robots, or tey to create realistic computer generated characters often fall into the "Uncanny Valley" because while they sort of resemble humans, they tend to have jerky or unconvincing movement and expressions. They don't look alive. Below is a link that shows an example of an Uncanny Valley character.


These vids are best viewed in full screen and high def.

This vid demonstrates the Uncanny Valley.

Heavy Rain: the Casting - YouTube




This is an example that seems to have pretty well removed the Uncanny Valley feeling.


Quantic Dream's Kara - YouTube

Last edited by NightBazaar; 03-13-2012 at 08:07 PM..
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:39 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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Her name is Kara ......

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
The word robot comes from the word robota meaning literally serf labor, and, figuratively, "drudgery" or "hard work" in modern Czech and simply work in Slovak, Russian, Polish, archaic Czech and other Slavic languages. The word is documented in the Old Church Slavonic as rabota "servitude" ( but as "work" in contemporary Bulgarian, Russian or Slovak), which in turn comes from the Indo-European root *orbh-. Robot is cognate with the German word Arbeiter (worker).

Karel Čapek introduced and made popular the frequently used international word robot, which first appeared in his play R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots) in 1920..........
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Old 03-14-2012, 07:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Her name is Kara ......
That's uncanny! LOL! I hadn't thought about that, but no doubt Kara was derived from the name Karel Čapek.

The short video, albeit fictional, is interesting because it presents an example of an android that exibits self-awareness and consciousness. In this case, we can sympathize with the android who was surprised at the idea of being sold as merchandise, and was afraid of becoming disassembled and wants to live. I mentioned the "Uncanny Valley" because we'd clearly have no real empathy for unrealistic simulations. But what about a realistic android like Kara? Would you pull the plug if it didn't meet with the employer's specifications? It makes you think about how complex things could potentially become. It also makes you think about how overly dependent people could become on such androids. The idea raises a lot of questions.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:41 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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I'd pull the damn plug if she so much as hesitated before ...... well, you know. But I'd cut her some slack on housekeeping.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:44 AM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspiring_natural View Post
For those of us who are aware about the ideas behind the Singularity, "transhumanism", post-scarcity, and how things could be rapidly converging to a point where things could likely become way better than anything we've ever imagined, why do you think the majority of our fellow human travelers have not even heard of or given thought about it yet? Would the world experience any changes if people became more aware of what may lead to happen, with sufficient collaborative effort?
Because they are too busy watching EXTRA!

That's the scale of dumb you're dealing with. (No offense to anyone who watches EXTRA! but you should really try to expand your horizons. Just a thought)
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post


This is an example that seems to have pretty well removed the Uncanny Valley feeling.


Quantic Dream's Kara - YouTube
That was seriously profound... gave me the chills.
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
That was seriously profound... gave me the chills.
I know what you mean. It's thought provoking. While we know the character (Kara) is representing a manufactured simulation of a human, it's startling to feel sympathy by the emotions it begins to display. The subject raises questions about how we would consider a potential android with AI advanced enough that we couldn't tell the difference between it and an actual human, apart from disassembling it, or by x-ray or ultrasound exams.

- If AI could develop that much, would it be considered as an autonomous, self-aware, technological form of life?

- What if militaries began to manufacturer large numbers of them and a tiny overlooked programming error causes them all to go berzerk?

- What if extremists began developing hoardes of them programmed as weapons?

- Or, if androids that could think and work faster, as well as being stronger and more accurate than humans, and have no real need for humans (since they'd be smart enough to replicate other androids), what role would there be for humans?

- Could humans eventually become the pets of androids?
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:04 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
.......
- What if militaries began to manufacturer large numbers of them and a tiny overlooked programming error causes them all to go berzerk?
unlikely in the future ...... we actually did have problems with an early defense computer showing the Soviets had launched ballistic missiles, and we came this [] close to nuclear war (according to a rumor I heard). But more and more fail-safes are being implemented every time the systems are updated.

Quote:
- Or, if androids that could think and work faster, as well as being stronger and more accurate than humans, and have no real need for humans (since they'd be smart enough to replicate other androids), what role would there be for humans?

- Could humans eventually become the pets of androids?
Possible. It's been a staple of science fiction tales for many decades now.

I believe there is SOMETHING to us that is greater than our brains and can even survive death, but there's nothing much of our brains that can't be replicated by further research and development. Our EXPERIENCE is of that ..... something ..... witnessing and experiencing a complex biocomputer - and I don't see why that ...... something ..... couldn't become attached in the same way to a complex electronic computer.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
unlikely in the future ...... we actually did have problems with an early defense computer showing the Soviets had launched ballistic missiles, and we came this [] close to nuclear war (according to a rumor I heard). But more and more fail-safes are being implemented every time the systems are updated.
I hope you're right that such a future scenario is unlikely. However, autonomous AI military bots are being considered by the military. What's under question is just how much autonomy should be given to such systems? As it is, there are already military bots in use. Some are used to search for bombs, searches in hazardous areas, transporting supplies, but some are also equipped with weapons and able to select targets. Some are remote controlled units, some require coordinates to be input (such as cruise missles).
Military Struggles to Find Limits of Robot Autonomy | Innovationnewsdaily.com

That you mentioned the problem with the early warning defense computer is a great example how an unknown problem in the programming could go terribly wrong. The cause of such programming errors originates with humans who are subject to mistakes and errors.

Jumping back a bit, I think we have to consider what the basic purpose is for AI. If AI continues to advance in development, then there's no reason to think advanced AI war bots won't be used for military purposes. They don't have to be self-aware (conscious), they only need to be programmed to make their own decisions.

Suppose autonomous, highly advance AI bots are developed. I already showed an example of bots (QBO) that can use a network to remotely learn from each other. Now, imagine war bots designed in a similar way. Sooner or later, the information to build such bots will end up in the hands of others, like extremists? It can happen. All we have to do is remember that a highly advanced helicopter, thought to be a stealth design, was downed at the compound of Bin Laden in Pakistan. The US demanded the return of the chopper, but the Pakistanis grabbed it first to examine its systems. I don't think there's any question that there are certainly other countries who would love to get their hands on that information.

If an advanced autonomous AI bot fell into the hands of others, who's to stop extremists from tweaking the programming a bit to use as a weapon for their purposes? See what I mean? Thus discussions continue as to how much autonomy should be given to AI war systems? It's easy to say, "Well, we just won't give them that much free reign. Problem solved." Maybe we won't do that, but it doesn't necessarily mean someone else won't.


Quote:
Possible. It's been a staple of science fiction tales for many decades now.
That's true. A few memorable ones are "Mother" from Alien, "SkyNet" from Terminator, "HAL" from 2001: A Space Odyssey, the rebelling bots from I, Robot, and many others.


Quote:
I believe there is SOMETHING to us that is greater than our brains and can even survive death, but there's nothing much of our brains that can't be replicated by further research and development. Our EXPERIENCE is of that ..... something ..... witnessing and experiencing a complex biocomputer - and I don't see why that ...... something ..... couldn't become attached in the same way to a complex electronic computer.
I agree. There IS something to us that can survive death. It's called information. Information is passed on by word of mouth as well as all kinds of media. Einstein is dead, but some of what was in his head is still around being studied and used. Information can become diluted over time, but it's never really gone. Plato and other great thinkers are long dead, but the ideas in their brain still lives on through their works.

In theory, you're right that the mechanics of our brain can be replicated by further research and development. On the other hand, that hasn't yet been accomplished, so it's not yet possible to say it will work like a himan brain. We don't yet know that. What is being done at the present time is mapping the brain. As far as I know, what's been fully mapped is the brain stem. The rest is going to be more increasingly complex and difficult. I posted 3 videos on Page 3, Post 30, about the brain, and about projects to map the brain. Take another look at them. There are plenty of overly optimistic opinions by experts that it can be done within a decade, but other expert opinion say they don't really know and that it could just as easily take a couple of hundred years. The brain is incredibly complex.

I didn't really understand your last sentence. Would you mind clarifying that a bit? Are you talking about cyborgs, or what?
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:23 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,307 posts, read 10,959,518 times
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I agree that robotic weaponry could fall into the hands of extremists such as the US Army, and even worse terrorist groups. I wasn't thinking so much about programing errors causing problems as intentional stupidity by humans, but now that I think of it, there's this from about 5 years ago: Robot Cannon Kills 9, Wounds 14 | Danger Room | Wired.com

Yes, if it's developed, it will inevitably be used - unless the UN becomes so strong as to put up as many safeguards as possible. It would have to be like nuclear weapons, which are after all more dangerous than AI robots (unless the AI robots could grab control of the entire internet in a bid to control the human race - I think that movie the Matrix had a similar theme? I missed that when it came out, been meaning to watch it.)

The last sentence I wrote was concerning my mystical beliefs, which are based partly on my experiences and partly on other people's. I wouldn't expect you to share them. I believe the Multiverse (one could call it "God") is sentient. The infinite ocean that is "God" explores his own creation through the minds of biological brains and little drops of himself called "souls". I'd say there's no reason that process couldn't work through artificial intelligences also. Just my private speculation.
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