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Old 05-31-2014, 03:08 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,224,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Who are you kidding? autonomous vehicles must make thousands of decisions every time it moves.

An autonomous vehicle is driving down a street lined with pedestrians and a child darts out in front of the vehicle, no time to brake.

What does the vehicle do?

~ Go straight and run over one child?

~ Go left and run over two women and their baby carriages?

~ Go right and run over three young men watching the street?

So as per you the above doesn't constitute a decisional process...

What do you call it?
Given a large set of moving and stationary objects near the roadway it proceeds at a slow speed. If the congesting gets higher it slows down. If the congestion lets up or moves away it speeds up. So it does not operate at a high speed with children or dogs or other things close by. Probably the most difficult thing will not be humans but deer who can close at a hellacious rate.

When a kid darts into the road it will stop while steering in the direction it believe will minimize the transfer of energy. and it will not be very sophisticated about it. It is aware of all objects stationary and moving in the immediate area and it attempts to avoid all.

That way it is basically impossible to get a kid within dart range. You could I suppose drop a kid off an over pass but that is stressing things a bit. In that case you stop.
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Old 05-31-2014, 11:04 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 16,931,461 times
Reputation: 7627
Another article concerning driverless vehicles.

Instead of poo-pooing and saying I'm posting worthless drivel read the article from beginning to end.

Don't get me wrong, after making numerous trips from San Antonio to San Diego and San Diego to Las Vegas I'd love to take these trips where I can relax, pop a couple and watch a flick. This author does come up with interesting observations...

Google's driverless car: It'll just block our roads. It's the WORST
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Old 06-01-2014, 01:08 AM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,224,675 times
Reputation: 5400
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Another article concerning driverless vehicles.

Instead of poo-pooing and saying I'm posting worthless drivel read the article from beginning to end.

Don't get me wrong, after making numerous trips from San Antonio to San Diego and San Diego to Las Vegas I'd love to take these trips where I can relax, pop a couple and watch a flick. This author does come up with interesting observations...

Google's driverless car: It'll just block our roads. It's the WORST
the stuff I am throwing at you is in reaction to the AI ethics stuff. That is drivel. That there are large and obvious holes in the schemes yet is clear. And I don't think Google or anyone has them all figured out.

The loss of GPS thing is pretty well understood and workable. You use a combination of GPS and inertial and likely physical indicators to stay located. One way may be to borrow fixes from nearby vehicles. Each vehicle knows where it is within certain confidence levels...by broadcasting their location to other vehicles they provide a mini GPS net. The cars for instance snaking through a tunnel can provide position to each other. For difficult situations you add beacons to keep all on course.

It is likely that relatively massive data bases can be maintained in each vehicle. A terabyte or two can map a lot of ground. I would think the more interesting question will be keeping it all current. I am not sure how they solve that one at this point.

I would think inclement conditions will be less of a problem for the autonomous vehicle than the manned one. The autonomous vehicle knows what it knows and slows down accordingly. It is likely far better at tracking location and has some sensors that will penetrate fog and snow better than sight. And when it reaches the point that it cannot safely navigate it stops...something manned vehicles often fail to do. And I suspect the autonomous vehicles will be the last to stop...and mostly they will stop because they are blocked by the manned ones.

I think the implementation phase will be very interesting and not clear cut. I still think the most likely first application is over the road trucking. It has the bigger payoff, can pay a fancy capital cost, has very large savings available and does not require solving some of the nasty stuff like tight urban operation. Then again Google may be smarter than I in chasing the tight urban environment at relatively low speed...it may not be 25 mph but even limiting it to 35 vastly assists in some parts of the problem. And they can probably launch large fleets with small and well instrumented locales.

Either over the road trucking or a tight urban implementation lets you put off a complete solution to well into the future. At the same time the conventional car is become more and more autonomous and will drive into the problem from yet another direction.

All in all though it is clearly coming. It will be most interesting to see how it actually unfolds.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:46 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 16,931,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
the stuff I am throwing at you is in reaction to the AI ethics stuff. That is drivel. That there are large and obvious holes in the schemes yet is clear. And I don't think Google or anyone has them all figured out.
Geez, I'm sorry I ruffled your panties and you have my deepest sympathy that you regard human life with such triviality...
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,106 posts, read 20,424,415 times
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They might not have all the issues figured out yet which is why we do not have them. However they are advancing fast and all of the issues should be figured out by the end of the decade.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:55 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,224,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Geez, I'm sorry I ruffled your panties and you have my deepest sympathy that you regard human life with such triviality...
Ohh my. We will have the brains of the autonomous machines work in their off times on some of the really important questions - Do the souls of the pure infants who die remain in purgatory or limbo? Should you throw the fat guy off the bridge to save the other five?

Why we can have those engines work on really important questions....
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:56 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 16,931,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Ohh my. We will have the brains of the autonomous machines work in their off times on some of the really important questions - Do the souls of the pure infants who die remain in purgatory or limbo? Should you throw the fat guy off the bridge to save the other five?

Why we can have those engines work on really important questions....
Obviously you are clueless as to the definition of engine (and didn't bother to read the article I posted)...

Quote:
en·gine

noun: engine; plural noun: engines
1. a machine with moving parts that converts power into motion.
synonyms: motor, machine, mechanism; More
a thing that is the agent or instrument of a particular process.
"exports used to be the engine of growth"
synonyms: cause, agent, instrument, originator, initiator, generator More
2. a railroad locomotive.
short for fire engine.
historical
a mechanical device or instrument, especially one used in warfare.
"a siege engine"

synonyms: device, contraption, apparatus, machine, appliance, mechanism, implement, instrument, tool
Ethics have been debated for centuries yet you believe "an engine" can come up with the solution...
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:02 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,224,675 times
Reputation: 5400
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Obviously you are clueless as to the definition of engine (and didn't bother to read the article I posted)...



Ethics have been debated for centuries yet you believe "an engine" can come up with the solution...
Give it up grasshopper...you are not yet ready for the big time.

Engine is the mechanism that runs software. Term of art for at least the last 40 years. Which is a little less than the time I have been in the business of developing hardware and softwar.

And no I do not believe that the engines will ever answer those sorts of questions...but we got here because you do....
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Old 06-02-2014, 08:33 PM
 
27,079 posts, read 38,335,431 times
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....Dust settles....

After driving from middle Iowa to Las Vegas and back recently I am on the side of having cars drive us. Even with some flaws it has to be better than what I observed.
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Old 06-03-2014, 10:58 AM
 
1,692 posts, read 1,918,580 times
Reputation: 1012
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Another article concerning driverless vehicles.

Instead of poo-pooing and saying I'm posting worthless drivel read the article from beginning to end.

Don't get me wrong, after making numerous trips from San Antonio to San Diego and San Diego to Las Vegas I'd love to take these trips where I can relax, pop a couple and watch a flick. This author does come up with interesting observations...

Google's driverless car: It'll just block our roads. It's the WORST
I read the article and I think it is mostly BS. Seems like the author just needs a reason to criticize what he knows or doesnt know about the Google Car.
Blind and disabled people using the Google Car is a good thing. But the author doesnt think so:
Only it isn’t, it’ll be more – because Google’s saying blind and disabled people who can’t drive will be able to call up and use a Google car. This means more vehicles on the road.

Tell me I’m wrong.
And a 1 second delay at green light will cause significant delays? How is that? This is clearly a safety feature and applicable only if you are the first car at the light. And how often does that happen?
Plus, how does the 1 second reaction time compare to a real person driving the car?

The only issues I see with driver-less cars going forward are AI ethics.
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