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Old 10-06-2014, 04:37 PM
 
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Do you think future technology will help cities to drain flood water fast, so that there is no major flooding on the roads? Many parts of the country will need this especially if climate change causes stronger and more frequent hurricanes. Can it be done?
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Old 10-06-2014, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
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Yes and because of technology we will not have to worry about climate change.
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Old 10-06-2014, 07:47 PM
 
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Water goes wherever the hell it wants to go, there will always be "unprecedented" weather events that will treat anything man builds as mere toys. Floods are often rated by frequencies, they could be 5 year events, 30 year events... 1000 year events. Eventually that 1000 year event is coming. The infrastructure required would enormous, perhaps in hundreds or thousands of years it would be feasible but don't expect it in your lifetime.

Current hurricane activity has not increased.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gottaq View Post
Do you think future technology will help cities to drain flood water fast, so that there is no major flooding on the roads? Many parts of the country will need this especially if climate change causes stronger and more frequent hurricanes. Can it be done?
Let's step back and consider the sources of flooding.

If rainfall were the only factor, the "all" that is needed is more and larger diameter storm drains. But where does all that water go?

I live along a creek, a BIG creek. Flooding on my block occurs when the creek level rises, blocking drainage from the drain pipes. When the creek water level rises above the level of the drains, we get flooded. Cant change the laws of physics, in this case the laws of fluid dynamics.

Think about the Mississippi river. To guarantee the end of flooding, those levees would have to be a whole lot higher. How high?

Tben there is that matter of sea level. I lived in San Rafael, CA in the early 80's Massive rainfall and high tidal surges meant flooding in Marin. Why? because of the high sea levels, rainwater had no place to go. In fact, I can recall one of the floods I experienced happened on a sunny day because the offshore hurricane sent a massive tidal surge on shore, pushing water into the bay facing creeks.

About those tidal surges. How do you want to stop them? Do you think we should build a 40 foot high sea wall maybe 40 feet high? From where to where?

An interesting read is John McPhee's The Control of Nature. It is all about the hubris of humans who really believe they can control nature.

PS yes for the part couple of years we have had fewer overall hurricanes, and lower intensities. Sandy was a tropical storm at landfall, and at best was a Cat 2 earlier. There were 53 hurricanes in 2005 (the year of Katrina) A year ago there were 38 or so.

The facts are a lot different than the AGW propaganda that is out there.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
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Read Mark Twain's "Life on the Mississippi" (available for free on project Gutenberg). The flooding of that river in the past was devastating (and regular) in ways that most people today cannot imagine. Entire towns were wiped off the map and rebuilt on new high ground. Water handling is an engineering problem, and only peripherally a technology problem.
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:12 PM
 
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500 year flood. Went through one in 1993. All the forecasters told us that was it for 500 years.

Nope. Had another one a few years later and a 100 year flood a few years after that.

Flood control is a pipe dream. Same as climate control. Never happen. Those who think it will don't comprehend the size of the planet we live on or the complexity of weather systems.
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Old 10-08-2014, 12:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post

Nope. Had another one a few years later and a 100 year flood a few years after that.
It can happen anytime of course. Sandy was a rare storm, there is smaller ones that seem to occur about every 40 or 50 years. The geological record shows there was two larger ones in the 1600's 2 years apart. Imagine if that occurred now?

The geological record also shows California gets massive flooding about every 500 years, they are something like 200 years overdue. When I say massive take what you are envisioning right now and multiply it by 100. The article I read on these floods painted it as something that will cause the largest disaster ever when they occur, they will disrupt and destroy water supplies and other infrastructure. Population centers large and small are going to be wiped off the face of the earth.
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:41 AM
 
27,037 posts, read 38,285,206 times
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Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
It can happen anytime of course. Sandy was a rare storm, there is smaller ones that seem to occur about every 40 or 50 years. The geological record shows there was two larger ones in the 1600's 2 years apart. Imagine if that occurred now?

The geological record also shows California gets massive flooding about every 500 years, they are something like 200 years overdue. When I say massive take what you are envisioning right now and multiply it by 100. The article I read on these floods painted it as something that will cause the largest disaster ever when they occur, they will disrupt and destroy water supplies and other infrastructure. Population centers large and small are going to be wiped off the face of the earth.
Is this immediately before or after the "big one" earthquake?
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Old 10-15-2014, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
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[quote=thecoalman;36791798]It can happen anytime of course. Sandy was a rare storm, there is smaller ones that seem to occur about every 40 or 50 years. The geological record shows there was two larger ones in the 1600's 2 years apart. Imagine if that occurred now?

I trust that by "rare" you are talking about locale of landfall. I dont consider a cat two hurricane as rare, and I especially dont consider a tropical storm that hits land as rare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
The geological record also shows California gets massive flooding about every 500 years, they are something like 200 years overdue. When I say massive take what you are envisioning right now and multiply it by 100. The article I read on these floods painted it as something that will cause the largest disaster ever when they occur, they will disrupt and destroy water supplies and other infrastructure. Population centers large and small are going to be wiped off the face of the earth.
Well, past performance is no guarantee of future results, as they say in those annoying investment adviser ads.

I am reluctant to rely upon these "overdue" predictions. Hell's bells, we are "overdue" for a major asteroid strike, based upon the historical record. We are "overdue" for a nasty quake on the San Andreas. We are "overdue" for a disaster on the Yellowstone caldera, based upon the historical record. Add them all up, and we are "overdue" for armageddon, and maybe End of Life Event (ELE)

But let's implement the AGW agenda. Doing so will solve EVERYTHING important.
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Old 10-16-2014, 01:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by chuckmann View Post

I trust that by "rare" you are talking about locale of landfall. I dont consider a cat two hurricane as rare, and I especially dont consider a tropical storm that hits land as rare.
Yes, it's been hyped as something extraordinary because of where it hit and the surge. There was a similar storm in 50's and another in the 20's. Don't quote me on the decades.



Quote:
Well, past performance is no guarantee of future results, as they say in those annoying investment adviser ads.
It's been a while since I read the article about that but they were able to go back 10's of thousands of years using the geological record and on average it was every 500 years. Perhaps the longest span of time between storms was 1500 years and of course there would have been shorter intervals than the 500 years as well, again it's been a few years since I read that article. Of course it didn't happen every 500 years on the dot.

The point is that if history is any indicator it will happen again. I've lived next to the Susquehanna river my whole life, you only need the correct combination of events. With this last flood had it rained for one more day it possibly could have been the largest disaster to ever hit the US. Most of the the levee systems put in place to protect from flooding would be built for a Agnes type event which occurred in 1972. This last event exceeded Agnes and the levee system only protected the communities because they were a little higher than what they designed to hold back. You are at the very brink of disaster and even a few more hours of rain could have been catastrophic.

You simply cannot plan for what extreme event are going to occur. While the flood water didn't go over the levee system for this last event it's inevitable that it will in the future. Might be next week or it might be 1000 years from now but it will happen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPm7zbiRZNw
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