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Old 11-22-2015, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,898,120 times
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Virtual Reality officially arrived, at least in mobile form, this past Friday! Gear VR for the S6 and Note 5 made its official debut November 20. It's already sold out at Best Buy and Amazon. It's getting decent to strong reviews so far. This is really the first ever production, consumer-ready VR system in existence.

Dedicated VR won't officially hit for another two to six months. The HTC Vive, Oculus Rift CV1, and Playstation VR will all likely arrive within that timeframe. My pick is the Vive. I've tried it. It is stunning. It has some wonderful advantages. It won't be cheap. If you have a powerful PC (I'm ordering an i7 6700K, two Geforce 980 TIs in SLI, 32 GB of DDR4 RAM, a 2 TB Samsung Pro SSD, and an overclocking liquid-cooled case and motherboard) that can push 2160x1200 @ a consistent 90 fps, a bit of technical know-how, and a 15x15 foot area, the Vive's first-generation will be a wonderful entry into the first stages of production, dedicated, consumer VR.

I liken it to the very first iPhone, which had:
  • 3.5 inch 18 bit color LCD screen at 480x320 (153,600 pixels)
  • 128 MB of RAM at 137 MHz
  • 32 bit 412 MHz CPU
  • limited functionality.
Almost exactly eight years on, the Samsung S6 Edge+ has:
  • 5.7 inch 24 bit color AMOLED screen at 2560x1440 (3,686,400 pixels, 24 times as many)
  • 4 GB of RAM at 2 GHz (32 times as much)
  • eight CPU cores at 2.1 GHz and 1.5 GHz (over 32 times the cycles per second)
  • some impressive 3D capabilities
  • a dazzling array of hardware and software functionality
  • eight years of figuring out the best and most creative ways to write for and use these gadgets
It's really no contest. But the first iPhone was a leap forward and it was compelling, and the same thing will be said about VR in my opinion. The Vive will be fun as hell, and well worth the time and investment, but by 2024 we'll likely have something many times more impressive. I foresee resolution jumping to 3240x5760 PER EYE (rather than 1080x1200 per eye -- almost 16 times as many pixels) at 150 Hz / fps, the next generation of "Big Pascal" 3D cards pushing polygon graphics ten times faster, latency down in the low single digit milliseconds, field of view over 180 degrees, high contrast, eye tracking, interfaces leaps and bounds improved, and various haptic feedback and interaction devices (steering wheel, cockpit, omni-treadmill, hand and finger tracking, etc.) several generations ahead of where we'll be when dedicated VR makes its debut.

I predict that during the next five years VR and AR usage will grow exponentially in a few areas:
  • gaming
  • medicine
  • education
  • data visualization
  • art
  • real estate
  • travel
  • social networking
  • shopping
  • media delivery
  • porn
  • any job that requires using a computer
Meanwhile, I'll be assembling my PC, configuring my home space, and enjoying the vast array of experiences the first-generation of VR has to offer.

P.S.: I think Tiltbrush, Medium, and other fully immersive 3D paint and sculpting programs are going to be enormously popular these first couple of years. Just wait until you see how it feels...

Last edited by Nepenthe; 11-22-2015 at 03:54 PM..
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:28 PM
 
553 posts, read 335,154 times
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2020? Oculus Rift CV1 will likely launch holiday 2015. DK2 is already a unique, compelling experience, Crescent Bay is a LEAP beyond that, and CV1 will refine that even further. Gear VR and Morpheus should be out in 2015.
Why should we go out at get this? There is no games out there for VR!! And no movies and TV shows for VR!!


Quote:
5-10 years? I'm excited about it now. It's sitting here on my desk. It will likely be launching in three versions next year (Gear VR, Morpheus, and Oculus Rift CV1).
If the VR is not in 4K or higher it is going to look really bad and not look real but fake real.
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:37 PM
 
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t will change how we watch tv and movies. Now we will live them not just watch them.
99% of most movies and TV shows are not in 4K that alone 12K or more that you need for VR.

A 4K would look really bad for VR. A 12K or higher look better.

Quote:
It will change how students and people learn. Imagine not just learning how the Romans lived but living it? Actually watching President Lincoln give the Gettysburg address. Not just looking at space but visiting it. Dinosaurs? The list goes on and on.
Most schools hardly have textbooks that alone laptop computer or ipad/tablets!!

VR or hologram technology cost way too much money. Even a $100 ipad/tablets will be too much for schools to cough up for each kid or teen.

Quote:
Travel. Now we can travel anywhere we want without leaving our house.
We have google earth and google street view.

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and more as this will impact more then just the gaming industry.
Most games now are going for smartphones and tablets.

Only small number of new games come out every year are for hardcore gamers.
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,898,120 times
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You're kind of a curmudgeon, aren't you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble99 View Post
Why should we go out at get this? There is no games out there for VR!! And no movies and TV shows for VR!!
There is LOADS of content already, and it's only been ONE WEEK since the first production consumer VR launched, and dedicated VR hasn't even launched yet. I read VR Focus, Road to VR, VR Reporter, Upload VR, VR Circle, and others daily and trust me, the amount of investment and effort and interest going into VR is humongous. I have a friend who quit a six figure career to work in VR. The possibilities are enormous.

Here We Go Again: the VR industry is spinning up just like online video 10 years ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble99 View Post
If the VR is not in 4K or higher it is going to look really bad and not look real but fake real.
Have you tried the HTC Vive on a fast computer in a 15x15 space? I highly recommend you do so. Its OLED screens at 1080x1200, with 110 degree FOV, running at 90 frames per second with imperceptible latency, allowing you to move around 225 sq ft, tracking your head and hands in six degrees of freedom, with 3D positional audio and good headphones, is enough to produce in most people's brains a sense of being "somewhere else." It is AMAZING what the brain will fill in. Who said anything about "real?" It doesn't necessarily have to look "real," it can look "fantastical" or "dream-like" or grant a sense of being in a cartoon or flying over a beautifully sculpted landscape or painting with light in 3D space or viewing a storybook in 3D as an observer or whatever. Don't knock it until you've tried it, VR is finally viable and it will be here next year.

Tiltbrush is the furthest thing from "real" but it's a phenomenol feeling to paint things in the "air" in VR.

Are the Vive, Rift CV1, or Playstation VR perfect? No, they're *first-generation* products, but they will be a mighty leap from *nothing,* just like the iPhone was a nice leap into the world of smartphones. The point is, they're sufficient (especially the Vive) to create a sense of immersion and presence that the human brain responds to. There's a particular characteristic of the brain that VR exploits. If it were just about replacing the visual field with information that would be one thing, but the way the brain works, the way it stitches together the electrical impulses it receives to create a story of reality is ripe for exploitation (and that word should not be read as having a negative connotation in this context) by technology.

The Star VR, which will be a second-generation VR system, will use dual 5120x1440 screens to produce a vast 210 degree horizontal field of view. It's a year or two away. It may run at 120 Hz and will feature pupil tracking. Although an i7, a Geforce 980 Ti 6 GB, and 16 GBs of RAM are great for the Vive and Rift, the second generation of systems will require significantly more power (nearly four times as many pixels per second), and it's on the way -- the Nvidia "Pascal" cards will debut halfway through 2016 and promise 2 to 4 times the power of the 980 Ti along with 16 to 32 GBs of VRAM.

Sony has a 5.5 inch screen that boasts a resolution of 3840x2160 already. Heck, it's VERY possible the Gear VR will be compatible with Samsung's S7 phones which should have that 3840x2160 resolution and they're working on how to do positional tracking in a mobile device so it's possible a future Gear VR system will have six degrees of head tracking.

And as for the "real" part of it, there's also this: Tripping in the Rift: Is Virtual Reality the Next Drug? | Motherboard
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Originally Posted by Bubble99 View Post
Only small number of new games come out every year are for hardcore gamers.
That's just false.
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Old 11-30-2015, 10:36 PM
 
553 posts, read 335,154 times
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Quote:
Have you tried the HTC Vive on a fast computer in a 15x15 space? I highly recommend you do so. Its OLED screens at 1080x1200, with 110 degree FOV, running at 90 frames per second with imperceptible latency, allowing you to move around 225 sq ft, tracking your head and hands in six degrees of freedom, with 3D positional audio and good headphones, is enough to produce in most people's brains a sense of being "somewhere else." It is AMAZING what the brain will fill in. Who said anything about "real?" It doesn't necessarily have to look "real," it can look "fantastical" or "dream-like" or grant a sense of being in a cartoon or flying over a beautifully sculpted landscape or painting with light in 3D space or viewing a storybook in 3D as an observer or whatever. Don't knock it until you've tried it, VR is finally viable and it will be here next year.
It just that in the past these VR did not really give you the illusion that you really are there. More like a fake illusion.

4K or even 8K may not even be enough for VR.

My computer has trouble with google 3D maps so VR is out of the question!! And we are talking about a 5 year old compute .
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Old 12-01-2015, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,898,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble99 View Post
It just that in the past these VR did not really give you the illusion that you really are there.
Which, Google Cardboard? Or are you talking about long ago VR when computers were, what, 1/1000th as powerful as they are now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble99 View Post
4K or even 8K may not even be enough for VR.
Presence is not a lightswitch, it's a continuum, a scale. When you play a game or use an application on a screen, you're forming a memory -- a memory of playing a game or using an app. When you play a game or use an application in well-executed and well-implemented VR, you also form a memory -- a memory of having BEEN somewhere. I submit that the PS4 VR, the Vive, and the Rift will be capable of producing that in people. They already are doing so.

Sony's been showing its VR lately to some enthusiastic crowds, HTC / Valve have been hitting various college campuses (Duke, UCSD, NC State) and getting excellent reviews and huge crowds, and the Rift CV1 impressed a lot of people at Oculus Connect 2. People have been using and enjoying the now antiquated DK2 for a while now. The Gear VR has gotten very strong consumer and media reviews since its launch on November 20th.

Yes, systems will improve over time. Remember the first iPhone, or the pre-Youtube days. But we've gotten to a point where both the processing hardware and the screen + lens technology as well as the head-tracking software can produce real VR for consumers. We're there. This is the beginning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble99 View Post
My computer has trouble with google 3D maps so VR is out of the question!! And we are talking about a 5 year old computer.
A five year old computer is quite old. GPUs are doubling in power about every fifteen months and in amount of VRAM every twenty-one months. I'd expect a five year old machine, with a five year old GPU, therefore, to have about 1/16th the power and 1/7th the VRAM of a good 2015/2016 machine and GPU. It's always been understood the Rift and Vive will require a powerful computational base.

Here are the minimum specifications Facebook / Oculus / John Carmack have specified to produce a decent Oculus Rift CV1 experience:
  • CPU: i5-4590
  • GPU: Geforce 970 or Radeon 290
  • RAM: 8 GB DDR3
  • OS: Windows 7 SP1
  • Ports: two USB 3.0 ports and one HDMI 1.3 output
My personal feeling is that i5 or any i7 is sufficient, the minimum GPU should really be a single 980 or even a single 980 Ti, I would go with 12 or 16 GB of RAM (DDR4 if possible), a fast Solid State Drive (especially for games that stream content from the drive), and Windows 10 (specifically because DirectX / Direct3D 12 will be a huge leap in graphical fidelity and performance).

On the other hand, you can get a Samsung Galaxy S6 and the Gear VR, together, for $100 (Best Buy is selling the S6 32 GB for $1 (with a contract) right now and Gear VR is $99). You can get a PS4 for $300 and its VR set is likely to be about $300 as well, for a total of $600.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:23 PM
 
553 posts, read 335,154 times
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A five year old computer is quite old. GPUs are doubling in power about every fifteen months and in amount of VRAM every twenty-one months. I'd expect a five year old machine, with a five year old GPU, therefore, to have about 1/16th the power and 1/7th the VRAM of a good 2015/2016 machine and GPU. It's always been understood the Rift and Vive will require a powerful computational base.
Nepenthe that may be okay but what about most laptops and computers for the public that come with a cheap $20 on board graphics than say graphics card.

A good graphics card is going to cost $300.

Most computers at computer stores so called pre-build systems and very much so laptops and note-book computers come with a cheap on board graphics than a graphics card.
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,898,120 times
Reputation: 4047
Well I don't know what to tell you. There's always Gear VR and Playstation VR, as mentioned.

Onboard 3D has always and likely will always be severely underpowered and unsuitable for most 3D gaming. So yes, a dedicated 3D card is essential. It's hard to expect a transcendant experience in the first generation from extremely weak and low-end hardware.

I was able to [virtually] build a complete computer that meets the Oculus specs for under $800 (other than the mouse, keyboard, and monitor). Many computers out there are just a Geforce 970 away from being enough. In time, even cheap, budget, low-end PCs (new ones), provided they have a dedicated 3D card, will be more than capable of powering the first-gen dedicated headsets. The demand will be enormous. Remember the example of the iPhone above (smartphone RAM, processor speed, capability etc. doubles every 19 months).
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Old 12-05-2015, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,898,120 times
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Big Playstation VR day:

http://www.roadtovr.com/category/pla...perience-2015/


and:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuZdHTKzXa8
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:08 PM
 
553 posts, read 335,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
Well I don't know what to tell you. There's always Gear VR and Playstation VR, as mentioned.

Onboard 3D has always and likely will always be severely underpowered and unsuitable for most 3D gaming. So yes, a dedicated 3D card is essential. It's hard to expect a transcendant experience in the first generation from extremely weak and low-end hardware.

I was able to [virtually] build a complete computer that meets the Oculus specs for under $800 (other than the mouse, keyboard, and monitor). Many computers out there are just a Geforce 970 away from being enough. In time, even cheap, budget, low-end PCs (new ones), provided they have a dedicated 3D card, will be more than capable of powering the first-gen dedicated headsets. The demand will be enormous. Remember the example of the iPhone above (smartphone RAM, processor speed, capability etc. doubles every 19 months).
Nepenthe do you think in 20 to 30 years from now a average laptop or tablet will be powerful enough for it?
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