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Old 01-07-2016, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,905,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Oculus Rift headset is available for pre-order. Price is $599. Along with the headset, included is an Xbox One controller and a couple of games (see videos below). Shipment is expected in March. I understand a few other companies are likely to be developing similar VR headsets. I would guess that prices will eventually drop as competition increases.
At this point, if you pre-order right now, you're looking at delivery no sooner than July. Mine will be arriving in April. The Rift CV1 is a very nice, high quality piece. However, be aware that it will be mostly SEATED (or standing but not much walking around) VR until the Oculus Touch and second Constellation camera arrive in Q3 or Q4.

Here are a couple of sets of impressions from the CES showfloor:

CES CV1 Impressions
CES Thoughts


The other big players are Sony with the Playstation VR and HTC / Valve with the Vive, but there is also the Gear VR (out already but definitely limited compared to the others), FOVE, StarVR, OSVR, and a few others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
That would be very cool though.
Indeed it is. I've been using Google Streetview in the DK2 for a long while. In fact I posted about it here but it was deleted (EDIT: oops, no it wasn't, it was a different post where I quoted an article, sorry about that; I'll still post the video again). What is Much Much cooler is photogrammetry. I predict within a few years a lot of well-known places will be traversible in VR and within 10 years most big cities will be fully mapped. Here's a rough, quick example of what I'm talking about:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg_216TCpRg

Last edited by Nepenthe; 01-07-2016 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 01-07-2016, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
I wish I could tell you. It's really hard to guess. They'll both have their pros and cons. Sony's PS VR seems to be lower in price at about $399. It's scheduled to be released sometime in the first half of this year, roughly about the same as Oculus Rift.
Playstation VR's price has not been announced. I'm guessing $500 with PS4 Camera and two PS Move controllers, plus you need to have a PS4. H1 (first half of the year) has been mentioned as street date for PSVR. Sony chose to say nothing about PSVR at CES. They'll have more in March at GDC, in May at DevCon, and in June at E3. I believe I posted some detailed impressions of the PSVR earlier in this thread. (EDIT: wrong again; here are the links on PSVR: )
My Experience with PSVR
Well That Was Impressive: Playstation VR, Hands On
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
I think I will wait till best buy has them and I can compare them side by side.
It is very unlikely that the Rift CV1 will be available for testing at your local Best Buy any time soon. However, all hope is not lost. See if you can find someone who can demo it for you. I am going to be demoing it for a number of people in a continuation of the "VR Parties" that my buddy and I started last year using DK1 and DK2, for instance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
What some of the comparisons seem to be suggesting, Sony's will be pretty much tied to the Playstation.
Not pretty much, but completely tied to it. As in, it does nothing without a PS4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Programs would likely be high quality, but fewer choices.
Over 59 games have been announced that will support PSVR, many of which are VR exclusives. They've also hinted at backwards patching being possible for existing games. But it is true that any old indie developer can't just post a demo or app or experience for PSVR like they can (and have been able to for three years) for Rift and Vive and OSVR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Sony's headset is said to be adjustable to allow use by people who wear glasses.
Rift and Vive work fine with glasses. My buddy who quit his job to develop for VR wears glasses in his DK2 all the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
The Oculus Rift on the other hand is compatible with Xbox One and PCs.
Rift is not compatible with Xbox One at all. Not sure where that one came from. It is compatible with a small subset of PCs. You can't use it on a laptop, not even a super powerful monster gaming laptop. You can't use it on a Mac unless it can boot up completely as a Windows PC. You must have Windows 7, 8/8.1, or 10. You must have at least an i5 4590. You must have at least a GeForce 970 or the AMD equivalent. You must have multiple USB 3.0 ports. You must have at least 8 GBs of RAM.

My personal thought on these is the processor isn't that important (but make sure you at least have a recent i5), but a GeForce 980 or 980 Ti would be preferable over the 970 (or you can wait about 4-5 months for the new "Big Pascal" chips from Nvidia which will be significantly faster). 8 GBs of RAM *should* be sufficient but I went for 16 just in case. I would definitely recommend Windows 10 for this reason: Direct X / Direct 3D 12 will only work with Windows 10 and will confer some potentially huge benefits both in terms of image quality and performance. Finally, I can only recommend an SSD, not because it's required but because nothing creates the impression that a computer is fast like having the OS loaded on an SSD instead of an HD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
From most of the information I've seen, most of the programs for either system are games. I'm pretty sure that will change over time to include a much wider variety of applications.
John Carmack recently postulated about a 50/50 split between games and non-game applications for the first-generation. I've used a variety of apps that weren't games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl3r View Post
Well, I don't know about everyone else, but I for one am very excited about VR. As a programmer, it's seriously one of the most exciting things to not only program a game, but to be *part* of your game in a way that is nothing like a regular non-vr computer game or phone game.
No kidding! Very exciting times. Since my times with the DK2 I find myself shying away from games on flat 2D screens. It just ruins you for that flat stuff. You want to be IN the world, not looking at it through a relatively tiny and flat window.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
The thing about Oculus is that I think you'd pretty much need a high end PC for best results. Essentially, these gadgets are accessories. With the PlayStation, I think all you need to do is plug it into the console and you're good to go. With Oculus, I think you need to add other things to use with a PC. I'm not sure about the Xbox One. But I'm seeing that certain controllers are needed, which I think is bundled along with the Oculus headset which I think might be for use with the Xbox One, but not necessarily for the PC. I'm not really certain about all that though.
I went through the PC requirements earlier. You're right, the PSVR's plug-and-play aspect is very attractive. I think Sony has an excellent product (though I have not tried it myself) and software lineup, and they have made some very smart choices in designing the PSVR and designing around the relatively weak PS4 (the breakout box, reprojection / interpolation, non-pentile screen, high comfort/form factor, utilizing the existing camera / Move controllers, unlocking the seventh core, etc.). I'm buying the PSVR.

I also pre-ordered the Rift CV1. I'm not 100% happy with the price (it's no object to me but I want VR to succeed which means it needs a modicum of mass appeal and adoption) and I wish it had Touch included but I can't argue with the extremely polished product they've created. It's going to be a sensational package.

The big unknown is the HTC Vive. The screen quality is nearly on par with the Rift, but the "room-scale" VR the Vive can do is a humongous game-changer. Fully-tracked controllers in every package, 15 foot x 15 foot tracking area, built-in "Chaperone" wireframe camera, backwards tracking vs. the Rift (little laser boxes with the cameras inside the headset in the Vive vs. passive emitters and external cameras for the Rift), room-scale in the Vive has been blowing minds for months. I've tried it, it is probably the coolest thing I've done in my life. But the downside is we really don't know when they will be able to deliver the product. When they announced the delay in December they mentioned April but the showing at CES this week, though somewhat polished, has left people thinking that April date is a pipe-dream. HTC is also very down on its luck. But Valve does have some of the best tech chops in the industry. I'm buying it no matter what, because I have the space and the money and I MUST have it, and it's undeniably a step up from Rift (even with Oculus Touch added) but I have my doubts that it'll be near as popular as Gear VR, Rift CV1, and PSVR, at least for consumers (possibly more expensive, delays and being late to the game, really need a good-size room to make its huge advantages over the Rift and PSVR come alive, etc.).

Finally, this was a great article summarizing Palmer's AMA (Ask Me Anything) from Reddit last night:

Oculus Founder's AMA

And on that note, ask ME anything. I've been eating, breathing, and sleeping VR and I know about everything there is to know about the theory, where we're going, the actual products, etc.

Last edited by Nepenthe; 01-07-2016 at 05:17 PM..
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Old 01-07-2016, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble99 View Post
So how long before World of Warcraft come out for VR? It not even out in 4K!!

World of Warcraft is not even out in 4K yet.

Google street view may take some time because of slow internet. A VR of google street view would probably use GB of data in day and TB in week of data.
Hi there, I had answered your post but it was deleted.

World of Warcraft has been experimented with in VR by several people already. It's on Youtube. Look it up.

That said, what do you mean it's not out in 4K? You can certainly play it in 4K provided you have a fast enough video card and a 4K monitor.

And, I'm not aware of any *official* conversions by Blizzard to VR, but you never know. Of course that doesn't mean you can't do it -- there are at least three stereo injectors on the market already, the best being VORPX, and there will be many more to come I'm sure.

As far as Google Street View, I don't know. I know I don't have a cap on my home internet usage (and I use a few GBs per day; would take me a year to do a TB though) and I can download stuff at around 10 MBs / second. A friend of mine can reach nearly five times that speed (mind you, this is all through a wire, not WiFi). If your home internet isn't that fast yet it will be at some point. My internet is about 2700 times faster than it was just twenty years ago, so I have faith speeds will continue to go up for everyone.

Anyway, VR is nearly here. Dedicated, consumer VR anyway.

Last edited by Nepenthe; 01-07-2016 at 04:52 PM..
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Old 01-07-2016, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
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The following is *WRITTEN BY ME.* Honest. I write a lot and I write a lot about VR, I did not steal this from any site.

We now have computers that a consumer can buy that can render photorealistic Star Wars Battlefront with the Real Life mod in 3840x2160 resolution at 120 frames per second... it has every realtime graphical flourish imaginable and it looks like real life, and when you see it running it’s hard to imagine where we go from here as far as GPU speed and rendering...

But... it’s flat. And, you’re still just viewing it through a relatively small window. We need VR because it’s a new frontier. We’ve gone about as far as we can go on a flat screen. It’s hard to see what benefit we can get from faster 3D cards under the current 2D desktop screen paradigm. It’s time to climb into the game or experience.

• There are SO MANY new ways it can be used (gaming, industry, entertainment, work, shopping, medicine, storytelling, etc. – uses in each of these areas no one has even thought of yet)
• There is SO MUCH additional GPU and CPU speed we will need to do this (a standard default PC game today targets 1920x1080 @ 60 fps, Vive and Rift are at 2160x1200 but with an 40% over-render in each direction (3024x1680) @ 90 fps and the scene must be rendered TWICE – this is SEVEN TIMES the power required for the standard VR experience to achieve parity with the standard desktop gaming experience, AND we need it to be 90 fps all the time (we can’t settle for it dipping below that); AND we’ll eventually need 250 times this speed)
• There are SO MANY hardware improvements that can be made (see list and 2026 example headset below)

VR is finally here for two reasons: GPUs are finally fast enough and screens are finally good enough and cheap enough (USB 3.0 helps too). The 1st Generation dedicated VR headsets (Rift, Vive, PSVR) should be pretty awesome (and only twenty years after we were first promised VR, alright...). However, as this list shows, there are still many, many advances and improvements that will be needed and will be made over the aggregated abilities of the 1st Generation. And the below list doesn’t even include all the software innovation and all the ways we’ll learn to use VR.
---------------------------------------------------------------
TRACKING
Lower Latency
Inside Out / Tracking without Lighthouse (or Constellation)
Hand and Finger Tracking
MIT 3D Imaging technology (super precision)
Full Body Imaging and Tracking ( la Kinect but much better)
Better / Hybrid Motion Tracking (to beat occlusion)
Realtime Photogrammetry (room mapping)

SCREEN QUALITY
HDR Display (super contrast) + 30 bit color (1 billion colors)
Higher Resolution
Higher Field of View (and dual screens)
Higher Refresh Rate (also Reprojection capability)
Lower Persistence
Higher Fill Percentage (lower Screen Door Effect)
QLED (Quantum Dot) Display
RGB Pixel Display
Curved Screens
Form Factor of screen (microdisplay, VRD)

OTHER DISPLAY QUALITY

Eye-Tracking / Foveated Rendering
Better optics / Fresnel / Dual Optics / Screen Diffuser Layer
Lightfield Display
AR/MR/Lightfield Capability
Pass-Through Camera

FORM FACTOR
Smaller Form Factor / More Comfort / Lighter Weight
Zero Light Leakage
Zero Frame Visibility
Wireless / LiFi

AUDIO
True Realtime Binaural Audio
Integrated Planar Headphones with Headphone Amplification

HAPTICS / INPUT
More Advanced / Flexible / High Definition Haptics
New Input Devices (steering wheel, flight stick, etc.)
New Kinds of Haptics (vest, etc.)
Locomotion (Omni-Tread, Infinadeck, inertia pod, etc.)
Olfactory Haptics
Gustatory Haptics
Breeze
Temperature sensations

RENDERING POWER
Much faster GPU speeds (and all the graphics effects)
Full-time Full-Scene 4x Super-Sampling Anti-Aliasing
Multi-GPU Rendering
On-Demand Cloud Rendering
---------------------------------------------------------------
So, What Does a High End VR Headset Look Like in 2026?

TRACKING
Super low latency, completely self-contained tracking with six degrees of freedom, micrometer-level granularity, body imaging and occlusionless hand tracking, full real-time photogrammetry / room-mapping

SCREEN QUALITY
Two curved HDR / 30 bit color screens, 7680x4320 per eye with 75% over-render (and 4x super-sampling AA) @ 144 Hz refresh (256x pixel per second requirement compared to 2016), 190 degree FOV, super low persistence QLED screen with RGB arrangement of pixels with virtually no detectable Screen Door Effect (Fill Percentage near 100%)

OTHER DISPLAY QUALITY
Eye-tracking with foveated rendering, dual fresnel lenses per side, Lightfield capability with AR/MR ability using cameras and photogrammetry or translucent screen capability

FORM FACTOR
Completely wireless in a form factor equivalent to bubble lens ski goggles with zero light leakage and invisible frame

AUDIO
Full 3D positional audio with binaural simulation and integrated planar headphones with onboard amplification

HAPTICS / INPUT
Full hand / arm / chest high-definition haptics with a variety of fully-tracked haptic input devices and olfactory, warm/cold simulation

RENDERING POWER
1000 TeraFLOPS (256x current 2016 – 8 doublings in 10 years = double every 15 months = consistent with historical rate of GPU speed increase), full-time full-scene 4x anti-aliasing, multi-GPU and cloud-based on-demand rendering
---------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, here's a quick primer on the differences between AR, MR, VR, and SR:

AR = Augmented -- Google glass, HUDs, 2D additions to the world, mainly data and overlays, “head-tracking” doesn’t apply

MR = Mixed -- Hololens and Magic Leap, 3D additions to the world that understand and respect depth and surfaces, head-tracking implemented, often 3D polygon constructs, often stereoscopic 3D

VR = Virtual -- Rift, Vive, PSVR, Gear VR, Fove, StarVR, etc., full replacement of visual and audio field, stereoscopic, fully 3D polygonal, always stereoscopic 3D (though experiences may be presented in mono), a.k.a. simulated reality

SR = Synthetic -- no current real-life examples, reality isn’t just simulated, it’s essentially replaced or synthesized, this could be because of a sci-fi “holodeck,” or via direct neural interface, or mind-uploading, or it could be that VR gradually rises to the level of SR once things like wireless, full body tracking, finger tracking, realtime photogrammetry, extreme FOV/refresh/resolution, foveated rendering, true binaural audio processing, locomotion, other sensations such as olfactory, heat/cold, wind, inertial, high definition whole body haptics, etc. are implemented

Last edited by Nepenthe; 01-07-2016 at 04:57 PM..
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Old 01-07-2016, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
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This is an amazing thread. I have google glass and I enjoy it can't wait for it to be improved upon. Also very hilarious reading all the pessimists and naysayers at the beginning of the thread.
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
This is an amazing thread. I have google glass and I enjoy it can't wait for it to be improved upon. Also very hilarious reading all the pessimists and naysayers at the beginning of the thread.
I forgive them. It was over a year ago and things were a little different. Healthy skepticism I can forgive, especially then. I can't really forgive dismissal of the whole idea of VR/MR/AR. That's just silly and stodgy in my opinion. It will happen even if Sony, Facebook, Valve, Samsung, and others fail completely in this generation. It's entirely inevitable.

You will be amazed by even Gear VR if you've only used Google Cardboard (I think that's what you meant, not Glass?).
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
I forgive them. It was over a year ago and things were a little different. Healthy skepticism I can forgive, especially then. I can't really forgive dismissal of the whole idea of VR/MR/AR. That's just silly and stodgy in my opinion. It will happen even if Sony, Facebook, Valve, Samsung, and others fail completely in this generation. It's entirely inevitable.

You will be amazed by even Gear VR if you've only used Google Cardboard (I think that's what you meant, not Glass?).
Yep meant to say cardboard main thing I'm looking forward to is fully immersive environments. It's probably decades away but I would pay hundred of thousands to get such a set up.
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
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I thought I would post a few links that people might appreciate.

Oculus Rift & Packaging -- nice package here

This is why people will pay $1,500 for an Oculus Rift and the PC to run it -- nice article really brings home the joy of great VR

Oculus Rift DK2 vs CV1 -- giving a small appreciation for the improvements

Amazon: Virtual Reality Hub -- Amazon is getting ready

The Oculus Rift's Problem Isn't Price -- good article about why the Rift needed to be really good

I quite literally ran around a virtual arena and loved it -- Virtuix Omni, this kind of thing could hurt my wallet

And here are a few good sites that cover VR:

Road to VR

VRFocus

UploadVR

Reddit Oculus
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Old 01-07-2016, 07:15 PM
 
4,990 posts, read 7,769,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
Rift is not compatible with Xbox One at all. Not sure where that one came from.
It came from the link I posted for the article "Oculus Rift Now Available for Pre-Order for $599", dated Jan 6, 2016 (See Page 8, Post 75). Here's the quote from the article:
Quote:
So what do consumers get for $599? The Oculus Rift headset, plus an Xbox One controller and two games, "Lucky's Tale" and "EVE: Valkyrie." The gadgets should ship out in March 2016.
Thanks for pointing that out. However, if the Oculus Rift headset is to be shipped out including an Xbox controller, that certainly seems to suggest something. In September, Tech Times indicates that Oculus Rift buyers may have to wait for use with the Xbox One. Still, one would have to wonder, why include shipping an Xbox One controller as part of the Oculus Rift bundle? I'd suspect something is in the works. Either Microsoft is planning to make the Xbox One compatible with Oculur Rift or they're planning to come out with their own VR headset.
Xbox One And Oculus Rift Could Be A Perfect Combo But Here's Why You Might Need To Wait : PERSONAL TECH : Tech Times
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Old 01-07-2016, 07:22 PM
 
1,294 posts, read 556,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
It came from the link I posted for the article "Oculus Rift Now Available for Pre-Order for $599", dated Jan 6, 2016 (See Page 8, Post 75). Here's the quote from the article:


Thanks for pointing that out. However, if the Oculus Rift headset is to be shipped out including an Xbox controller, that certainly seems to suggest something. In September, Tech Times indicates that Oculus Rift buyers may have to wait for use with the Xbox One. Still, one would have to wonder, why include shipping an Xbox One controller as part of the Oculus Rift bundle? I'd suspect something is in the works. Either Microsoft is planning to make the Xbox One compatible with Oculur Rift or they're planning to come out with their own VR headset.
Xbox One And Oculus Rift Could Be A Perfect Combo But Here's Why You Might Need To Wait : PERSONAL TECH : Tech Times
It would seem to indicate that the Oculus Rift is best played with an XBox One controller
XBox One controllers are not limited to XBox one.
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