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Old 01-16-2015, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
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Hmm... then there's the curious situation when salt is added to ice. I can't wait for the OP to enlighten us on that quandary.
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Old 01-16-2015, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Westwood, MA
3,469 posts, read 4,360,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
The colder the ice the better. Who wants to dilute their drink with melting ice? If it's melting then it's time to toss it and get fresh i.e colder ice. Keeping beer chilled is best when there is no water, just ice and for that the ice needs to be real cold. The latent heat of ice is of no consequences. Now when it comes to ice in beer, that is best achieved by setting the beer fridge just right so as to have partial freezing of the beer. Too cold and all one will get is beer sprayed out over friends and unsuspecting dogs and a porous mass of tasteless ice left in the can. That's achieved by placing beer can in freezer. Great party trick!
The melting of ice is essentially the only thing cooling your beverage. There just isn't that much heat involved warming ice. If you want to keep your beer cold and don't want water in your beer there are many alternatives to ice (refrigeration, cold mug, whiskey stones, self-contained ice cubes), but replacing ice once it starts to melt would have to be done so frequently as to make such a process useless.
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Old 01-17-2015, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,443 posts, read 15,059,549 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrandom View Post
Maybe your friend is smarter than you give him credit for because he was right. Cold ice really isn't much better than warm ice.

Latent heat of melting for ice = 3.3e5 J/kg
Heat capacity of ice = 1.96e3 J/kgK

Unless your freezer is closer to -150C than -15C, the dominant effect is the ice melting. For normal freezers it's more like a 10% effect. Hardly worth the trip.

As for the deplorable stat of our nation's science education, I think we do OK.
Ice - Thermal Properties

There's the specific heat of ice at various temperatures from -100C to 0C. Typical freezer is -18C. The specific heat is roughly 2 kJ/kg, eg takes 2 kJ of energy to heat a kg of ice one degree. Latent heat of fusion is 334 kJ/kg. So to take the typical -18C ice from your freezer up to 0C takes about 36 kJ/kg of energy, or roughly 1/10th the amount of energy it takes to melt ice that's already at 0C.

Basically, it's dumb and dumber. Dumber doesn't know ice can be various temperatures. Dumb thinks cold ice really matters. That's for book smarts. For practicality, I agree. The warm ice doesn't matter.
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Old 01-17-2015, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Greater NYC, USA
2,762 posts, read 2,626,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Ice - Thermal Properties

There's the specific heat of ice at various temperatures from -100C to 0C. Typical freezer is -18C. The specific heat is roughly 2 kJ/kg, eg takes 2 kJ of energy to heat a kg of ice one degree. Latent heat of fusion is 334 kJ/kg. So to take the typical -18C ice from your freezer up to 0C takes about 36 kJ/kg of energy, or roughly 1/10th the amount of energy it takes to melt ice that's already at 0C.

Basically, it's dumb and dumber. Dumber doesn't know ice can be various temperatures. Dumb thinks cold ice really matters. That's for book smarts. For practicality, I agree. The warm ice doesn't matter.
-5C is a good, typically -3C to -4C, take a thermometer and check the temp in your freezer
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Old 01-17-2015, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,443 posts, read 15,059,549 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPolo View Post
-5C is a good, typically -3C to -4C, take a thermometer and check the temp in your freezer
For making clear ice, yes. I don't give a crap about clear ice though. Use the recommended temperature unless you have some specific reason. I store ice cream, so mine is set lower than -18C.
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Old 01-17-2015, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Greater NYC, USA
2,762 posts, read 2,626,206 times
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Here is my situation, all my life I have known that freezer is -4, mine is set to max... Let me get my digital thermometer I use for brewing beer....

Yes, my freezer is set to max, digital thermometer measures -5c during Both tests. This is a modern fridge, it has always been like this, the temperature in an average home freezer is -3 to -4c. It's that way all over the world.

I could stick that thermometer into some water to measure the temperature of Ice in that fridge. But it's -5.

I have tested the temperature of ice from that fridge -5C...
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Old 01-17-2015, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Westwood, MA
3,469 posts, read 4,360,408 times
Reputation: 4476
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPolo View Post
Here is my situation, all my life I have known that freezer is -4, mine is set to max... Let me get my digital thermometer I use for brewing beer....

Yes, my freezer is set to max, digital thermometer measures -5c during Both tests. This is a modern fridge, it has always been like this, the temperature in an average home freezer is -3 to -4c. It's that way all over the world.

I could stick that thermometer into some water to measure the temperature of Ice in that fridge. But it's -5.

I have tested the temperature of ice from that fridge -5C...
I'm not sure why your freezer is different, but Wikipedia suggests -18C is typical:

Freezer units are used in households and in industry and commerce. Food stored at or below −18 C (0 F) is safe indefinitely.[8] Most household freezers maintain temperatures from −23 to −18 C (−9 to 0 F), although some freezer-only units can achieve −34 C (−29 F) and lower. Refrigerators generally do not achieve lower than −23 C (−9 F), since the same coolant loop serves both compartments...


If you don't believe Wikipedia, would you believe the FDA?

Keep your appliances at the proper temperatures. Keep the refrigerator temperature at or below 40 F (4 C). The freezer temperature should be 0 F (-18 C). Check temperatures periodically. Appliance thermometers are the best way of knowing these temperatures and are generally inexpensive.
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