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Old 12-21-2017, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
2,099 posts, read 775,042 times
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The gap is widening between knowledge and wisdom, and in particular, spiritual perception, which is currently slogging along at a 36-AD pace, almost 2,000 years out of date.

So all this escalating knowledge will continue to run away from us, unchallenged, without any critical or moral guidance.
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Boston
3,712 posts, read 1,248,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post

Back in July two AI computers started talking to each other in a language they created. As I understand it they removed all the redundancy found in the English language so they could communicate more efficiently. It's gibberish to a human but the computers could make perfect sense of it because

Computers could make sense of it?
That implies awareness, it's a very sloppily written pop science article. No such thing as self aware or conscious machine exists.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,803 posts, read 51,151,571 times
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Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
Computers could make sense of it?
That implies awareness, it's a very sloppily written pop science article. No such thing as self aware or conscious machine exists.
Yes, the computers did make sense of it, but it didn't appear non-redundant, simply another way of handling the information.

Your last statement is somewhat inaccurate. Sensors make many machines "aware" of surroundings in a way that they can interact with the environment. Example, the mechanical linkage on a carburetor, or more recently a car that brakes automatically if it senses an impending collision. In the second example, the sensors feed into a type of "brain" that interprets the data. As the car is protecting itself as well as occupants, it is, in a sense, "self aware."

The Turing test has been passed by some computers, so the definition of "consciousness" has to have a further qualification. In a strictly Newtonian world, where everything has cause and effect, the choices are A: there is no such thing as consciousness, it is an illusion. B: consciousness is merely a manifestation in a predetermined universe.

It is only when the as yet unexplainable capriciousness of the quantum world enters in that there can be any non-deterministic consciousness. Even then, that is only a tiny part of a largely deterministic set of responses. Tropisms do not imply consciousness. The mimosa plant has tropisms, but to the best of our knowledge no nervous system or consciousness.

True awareness takes a lot of constant work. I could easily argue that many people are only aware of the minimum amount that will get them through the next few minutes. An example of this is people trying to drive and text at the same time. The conscious thought of driving is dismissed and put on autopilot by the brain, while it focuses on texting. The famous gorilla walking through a basketball game is another example of where we are NOT aware fully of the world around us.

Consciousness is relative, not absolute.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:46 AM
 
11,658 posts, read 13,027,703 times
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Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
i'd question why people haven't bothered to learn new things first...
Probably because they are too busy using new things first.
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Old 12-23-2017, 02:56 PM
 
37,048 posts, read 38,158,075 times
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Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
Computers could make sense of it?
That implies awareness, it's a very sloppily written pop science article. No such thing as self aware or conscious machine exists.
Not only could they understand it they created it out of the English language. This is not something they were explicitly programmed to do, they went and did it on their own. Call it what you want but I would suggest self awareness is going too far. If that article is not up to your standards there is plenty more out there.
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Old 12-25-2017, 12:34 AM
 
1,399 posts, read 722,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
We will have to merge with technology to become transhuman allowing us to keep up....
Exactly, the man-machine hybrid society realized in Ghost in the Shell (and I don't mean the bastardized Hollywood movie).

My question about AI-- if there are so many fixed AI systems in operation at this moment, how far away are we from a master computer that's networked with all of them, to create one large "general AI" system that manages all of it?
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Old 12-28-2017, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Boston
3,712 posts, read 1,248,173 times
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Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
What is true AI? Many of the machines are replicating human human intelligence quite well. Watson, self driving cars etc. It's only a matter of time before they can do any task and I would suggest that time is short.
I watched a video where Roger Penrose demonstrated chess situations Watson could not resolve, it would indicate a draw but Watson is programmed to win and would begin sacrificing prices.
If you say the resolution could be programmed in, then it's not the computer playing, it's just a parrot for the programmer.

Chess is a finite system. It gets worse when the problems are opened up to the infinite.
Computers are great at computing but intelligence is more than that .
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Old 12-28-2017, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Boston
3,712 posts, read 1,248,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Not only could they understand it they created it out of the English language. This is not something they were explicitly programmed to do, they went and did it on their own. Call it what you want but I would suggest self awareness is going too far. If that article is not up to your standards there is plenty more out there.
It's not up to my standards and you are trying to pass it off as science. It's crap.
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Old 12-28-2017, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Boston
3,712 posts, read 1,248,173 times
Reputation: 5722
Quote:
Originally Posted by nc17 View Post
Exactly, the man-machine hybrid society realized in Ghost in the Shell (and I don't mean the bastardized Hollywood movie).

My question about AI-- if there are so many fixed AI systems in operation at this moment, how far away are we from a master computer that's networked with all of them, to create one large "general AI" system that manages all of it?
It's a complete non starter.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:08 AM
 
902 posts, read 484,215 times
Reputation: 793
Machine's have already outsmarted us. Their learning capabilities are well beyond ours. This does not directly translate to passing WJ IV tests (as one would expect a fully capable AI to do some day). It's just that these machines are smarter at a specific thing than we, as humans are.
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