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Old 02-09-2018, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,702 posts, read 50,755,476 times
Reputation: 27127

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From the cited article:

"Remember, you are not really splurging or abusing the environment by adding one or two degrees. In very cold weather, adjusting a heat pump thermostat to 73 may be necessary to provide the 72 degree comfort you were initially looking for."

Sometimes I just want to reach through the screen and ... inform someone that their statement is idiotic.

The above statement was made just after a comment about the heat pump running 100% of the time. So, raising the thermostat a degree is going to make the heat pump run 105% of the time??? I think not, at least not in this universe. It just means the aux heat comes on a little more. Of course, that would be counter to the author's glowing comments, so it conveniently is never mentioned.

Another statement:

"Here’s the truth. Heat pumps are tremendously efficient, even in cold weather. True, the efficiency does decline slightly as the temperature goes down, but even at very cold, single digit temps, heat pump efficiency is impressive and always better than any other setting on your thermostat."

Bull-f*cking-sh*t. This fellow apparently has a master's degree in idiocy. The decline is not "slight" in colder temps. It is orders of magnitude worse. People like this need to have their websites come with a warning to don hip boots before entering.

One of the sad facts about heat pumps is that most people get up in the morning. Huh? You read me right. Heat pumps would work better if people got up at 2 in the afternoon. The natural tendency for humans is to lower the heat at night to make it easier to sleep soundly. That ends up meaning that a house is cold at 6 AM, just when people are getting up and wanting it warmer to shower and get started on the day. That is ALSO the time that the outside air temps are the coldest, and a heat pump struggles to keep the temperature in the house even as warm as it is. What happens? WHAM!! Aux heat is demanded and the power bill skyrockets.

If people got up at 2 PM, when the temperatures are warmest, the heat pump would - on many days - be pouring out cheap heat. As a matter of fact, with good insulation and sufficient thermal mass in a house, it might be cheaper to turn a heat pump up to 75 in the afternoon, and then allow it to coast at 70 throughout the evening.

What I have found, even in this climate with less intense winters, is that if I light a burner on my gas stove at night and use a fan to move the heated air off the ceiling, I can usually keep the heat pump from cycling at all during the night at a thermostat setting of 58 degrees (needed for my orchids). Coupled with using wood and gas on the coldest days, my electric bill didn't jump at all this unusually cold past month while many were seeing their bills double.
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Old 02-09-2018, 09:57 AM
 
25,141 posts, read 22,996,000 times
Reputation: 15049
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
From the cited article:

"Remember, you are not really splurging or abusing the environment by adding one or two degrees. In very cold weather, adjusting a heat pump thermostat to 73 may be necessary to provide the 72 degree comfort you were initially looking for."

Sometimes I just want to reach through the screen and ... inform someone that their statement is idiotic.

The above statement was made just after a comment about the heat pump running 100% of the time. So, raising the thermostat a degree is going to make the heat pump run 105% of the time??? I think not, at least not in this universe. It just means the aux heat comes on a little more. Of course, that would be counter to the author's glowing comments, so it conveniently is never mentioned.

Another statement:

"Here’s the truth. Heat pumps are tremendously efficient, even in cold weather. True, the efficiency does decline slightly as the temperature goes down, but even at very cold, single digit temps, heat pump efficiency is impressive and always better than any other setting on your thermostat."

Bull-f*cking-sh*t. This fellow apparently has a master's degree in idiocy. The decline is not "slight" in colder temps. It is orders of magnitude worse. People like this need to have their websites come with a warning to don hip boots before entering.

One of the sad facts about heat pumps is that most people get up in the morning. Huh? You read me right. Heat pumps would work better if people got up at 2 in the afternoon. The natural tendency for humans is to lower the heat at night to make it easier to sleep soundly. That ends up meaning that a house is cold at 6 AM, just when people are getting up and wanting it warmer to shower and get started on the day. That is ALSO the time that the outside air temps are the coldest, and a heat pump struggles to keep the temperature in the house even as warm as it is. What happens? WHAM!! Aux heat is demanded and the power bill skyrockets.

If people got up at 2 PM, when the temperatures are warmest, the heat pump would - on many days - be pouring out cheap heat. As a matter of fact, with good insulation and sufficient thermal mass in a house, it might be cheaper to turn a heat pump up to 75 in the afternoon, and then allow it to coast at 70 throughout the evening.

What I have found, even in this climate with less intense winters, is that if I light a burner on my gas stove at night and use a fan to move the heated air off the ceiling, I can usually keep the heat pump from cycling at all during the night at a thermostat setting of 58 degrees (needed for my orchids). Coupled with using wood and gas on the coldest days, my electric bill didn't jump at all this unusually cold past month while many were seeing their bills double.
I'm embarrassed....you make a lot of sense....
and you probably won't like this but I was also laughing....

thank you
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:03 AM
 
6,088 posts, read 3,160,373 times
Reputation: 12315
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
In this day and age, I cannot understand, why, they cannot make a heat pump for different areas of the country. They are putting out so many now up here in PA, and yet, when the temp reaches below 32 degrees they are terrible. They run, and run, and don't heat as well....that to me, is surely not energy efficent?
And yet, they are installing so many of them now....

doesn't make sense to me? Does anyone else ask these questions...


And they only last between 10 - 13 years?

Whats up with that?

Can someone explain this to me in layman's terms?
I was surprised to learn recently that PA and maybe other areas in the NE are using heat pumps, since it's my understanding they are inappropriate for really cold areas.

I read up on them before I bought my current house in 2017. I learned that they are efficient for areas that don't get too cold very often (my area is subtropical, normally), but are very inefficient and costly to run for COLD weather (below 32), since the electric rods may kick on. That's like having a giant electric space heater.

AND if the cold weather part of the heat pump is used often, it means that the whole unit may end up needing to be replaced sooner than if you had separate systems, because the cold weather part adds to the usage for the ONE UNIT.

In my area, my heat pump is basically used very little in the winter, so it doesn't add much to the wear and tear of the unit.

The reason heat pumps are used in new construction, IMO, is that they are cheaper to install. You install one unit, instead of two. Even though the heat pump unit may cost more than an a/c unit or a separate heating unit, it's much less than buying BOTH an a/c & a heating unit, and then you save on installing ONE, instead of two, units.

We had an unusual cold spell recently, where weather got under 32 degrees for a number of days. The people in my area are inexperienced with cold weather, so some neighbors ended up with very high heating bills (no doubt because of those electric rods). But my bill was barely more than the month before, because I knew what to expect (I used to live in a colder area), and I had read up on heat pumps, so kept the temp down below 60 degrees. Heat pumps aren't good for really cold areas, is what I've read. Very inefficient.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:03 AM
 
36,963 posts, read 37,839,848 times
Reputation: 14760
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
sigh.....

I did do research...I may have a propane fireplace insert, but not a log fireplace.
Coal is not wood, wood is considered nuisance because of the smoke and may be banned in many places although I would find it odd if were banned anywhere in PA. The exception to that is outdoor wood boilers which some localities have banned. A lot of people were burning unseasoned wood or even garbage in them


Quote:
Also, I am limited as to what I can do physically...(understand)
Coal is a little bit of work and if you are not up to it then it's obviously not an option.


Quote:
There are rules in our development.
The rules in your development or HOA are not the same as laws. While a HOA may impose such bans on coal that would not occur outside of HOA because there would simply be nothing to justify it.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:28 AM
 
25,141 posts, read 22,996,000 times
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Quote:
thecoalman Coal is not wood, wood is considered nuisance because of the smoke and may be banned in many places although I would find it odd if were banned anywhere in PA. The exception to that is outdoor wood boilers which some localities have banned. A lot of people were burning unseasoned wood or even garbage in them
yes, I was simply saying we are not allowed to use wood fireplaces....or coal....in my community. It is in the contract....


Quote:
Coal is a little bit of work and if you are not up to it then it's obviously not an option.
as I said before, we used coal years ago, when I lived in northern PA
I can't use it now, b/c you have to use paper and a little wood to start a fire, it's a no no in our community.


Quote:
The rules in your development or HOA are not the same as laws. While a HOA may impose such bans on coal that would not occur outside of HOA because there would simply be nothing to justify it.
OMG I know that....lol

I know they are the rules in my community and not laws....lol

I wouldn't be able to use the latter, (coal or wood) b/c I cannot lift much or bend down....I have health problems....
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:55 PM
 
8,902 posts, read 9,056,957 times
Reputation: 4548
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
I believe you are all missing my question.....
What my concern is, when the temp., drops to 32 degrees or below, they are incredible inefficient, they don't blow nearly as much warm air out into your home, and they run and run and run all night long to keep up....
my question is, if we can create smart cars that drive themselves, why can't they come up with a much more heat efficient furnace/heat pump.
I don't think I am.

There are more efficient furnace/heat pumps: (#1) geothermal heat pumps, or (#2) heat pumps with back up systems using some other fuel like propane.

An engineer is limited to the fundamental laws of physics. Heat pump technology relies on heat differentials.There are many websites describing the technology.

My point is that if you already own the house, then think twice about replacing the system with a new one. The neighbors did that, and spent $13,000.

In my case, in Pennsylvania, we had 100 days last year when some portion of the day went below freezing. A single space heater should easily offset the days when a heat pump is inadequate for a reasonable cost.
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Old 02-09-2018, 03:04 PM
 
36,963 posts, read 37,839,848 times
Reputation: 14760
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
(#1) geothermal heat pumps,
Geothermal is not necessarily more efficient, it's consistently more efficient because the temperature of the water is constant around 52 degrees. Very expensive to install and you need the property for it.

Quote:
In my case, in Pennsylvania, we had 100 days last year when some portion of the day went below freezing. A single space heater should easily offset the days when a heat pump is inadequate for a reasonable cost.
Paco, I keep about 2200 sq, ft. around 70ish, the basement might be another 1800 sq ft and that stays around 65ish just from the pipes and whatever heat is making it's way into the basement from the first floor, the garage which is about 1300 sq. ft. stays around 55ish from the residual heat from the boiler and pipes. I also do domestic hot water.... About $2400 a year. That's the bottom line.

If you want to get into long term costs, coal boilers are expensive but you only buy them once. I helped my Father install the exact same boiler I'm using now in different house back in about 1985. There is another one sitting in my Grandmothers basement, same model but 15 years older. It was replaced with gas because there was no one take care of it, she ran out of young grandchildren. I'd have no qualms about putting about $1K into it to fix some minor issues and installing it.
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:27 AM
 
6,057 posts, read 3,237,540 times
Reputation: 12839
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
yes, indeed, it's crazy...and they want to talk energy efficent? I'd rather had an oil bill, or electric bill, with something that was more efficient.

I mean, it's crazy, the things run and run and run very hard when the temps go down under 32 degrees and when your talking 15 - 0 degrees, it runs, but doesn't heat well at all....can't keep up.

So why the heck are they installing them? I see them all over the place, matter of fact, my girlfriend who lived in NJ had a huge Georgian home that used a heat pump?

Then why install them at all....and yes, your right, if you live in a more mild climate, yes, indeed, they would be energy efficient, my son has one, well, most homes where he lives has them...but to place them in PA and North, is crazy?
The question you might better ask is why are so many people in Pennsylvania willing to buy houses with heating systems that are inadequate for the local climate?
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:08 AM
 
25,141 posts, read 22,996,000 times
Reputation: 15049
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutty View Post
The question you might better ask is why are so many people in Pennsylvania willing to buy houses with heating systems that are inadequate for the local climate?
well to be honest, I don't believe they know...I mean, I never did? Never thought about it....


It's a win for the builder and the heap pump companies....
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:29 AM
 
36,963 posts, read 37,839,848 times
Reputation: 14760
If you want A/C you might as well go with the heat pump as the cost is not that much different. Using it as your primary heat in cold climate not a good idea cost wise.
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