U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-15-2018, 06:26 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
6,756 posts, read 4,191,919 times
Reputation: 1140

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
As a Christian I accept the Big Bang as true. I mean why not? In college I took a course in Astrophysics which neatly explained how all matter developed from photons-the particle aspect of light. The professor explained as things expanded and cooled down the photon particles started combining to form subatomic particles, which in turn combined to form atoms. Its been a few years since that course so I can't remember the details.
[Mod cut: religion]
I find it interesting that you restructured your memory into such a wild story. Or else I find it interesting that a course would say such a thing back then, and from where they would get that idea

Today: we know that photons don't develop into any sort of matter, they exhibit wave-particle duality, and they most certainly don't combine to form the other subatomic particles such as quarks and gluons (the ones that atoms are made of).

[Mod cut: off topic]

Last edited by elnina; 03-17-2018 at 05:22 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-15-2018, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
3,320 posts, read 786,428 times
Reputation: 4743
Everything didn't form from the big bang. The earth is 4.5 billion years old, it took a lot of time for anything to form. Hell, the human species is only 200,000 years old.

If your point is how did the big bang have the ingredients to create life, who knows? But it still took billions of years to get the whole thing started.

Quote:
The biochemistry of life may have begun shortly after the Big Bang, 13.8 billion years ago, during a habitable epoch when the age of the universe was only 10 to 17 million years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

Even as an atheist, the big bang theory leaves a lot to be desired, but it's the best theory we have up to this point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2018, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,715 posts, read 8,229,439 times
Reputation: 10788
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
I find it interesting that you restructured your memory into such a wild story. Or else I find it interesting that a course would say such a thing back then, and from where they would get that idea

Today: we know that photons don't develop into any sort of matter, they exhibit wave-particle duality, and they most certainly don't combine to form the other subatomic particles such as quarks and gluons (the ones that atoms are made of).

[Mod cut: off topic]
And I find it interesting that you felt the need to react the way you did to my post. If you felt my professor was wrong, just say so , but don’t claim I have some sort of mental illness. As for your opinion about the Bible it is just that; your opinion and nothing more.

So tell me, since the primary stuff during the early time of the Big Bang was photons where did the or how did the larger subatomic come from or form?

Last edited by elnina; 03-17-2018 at 05:19 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2018, 08:40 AM
 
19,969 posts, read 15,306,758 times
Reputation: 7178
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Restructuring memories is not a mental illness. If I recall the evidence-based psychology correctly, it's basically what every person seems to do (especially in their sleep) in order to remember parts of them, forget others, combine others, etc. I just found it interesting that you would remember an astrophysics class that way, given that they would have had no reason back then to believe that (other than some version of a Christian Bible saying that light came first, right after Night and Day or something).

I had an opinion more about an aspect of the theology presented, which is the incorrect view that dictatorships and kingships in heaven are good instead of meaningless (it's heaven, after all) and detrimental (restricts freedom in a "heaven" which is supposed to be perfect and thus maximally free).

Primary stuff during the early time of the Big Bang isn't postulated to be all elementary particles? (i.e. electrons, photons, quarks, gluons, neutrinos, etc. and the "anti" of these)
If you and Mr5150 keep bringing the Bible and theology into it the moderator is going to close this thread. And that would be a shame because the topic is a good one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2018, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
2,588 posts, read 1,296,264 times
Reputation: 3529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you and Mr5150 keep bringing the Bible and theology into it the moderator is going to close this thread. And that would be a shame because the topic is a good one.
Moderator cut: deleted

I am somewhat confident that humans may someday laugh at the certainty we currently display about our current theories regarding the universe. One would have to study these theories constantly in order to avoid ridicule for espousing a theory that was popular a couple years ago.

If any forum should be lenient regarding alternate theories, one would certainly hope that science and technology would strive for open mindedness.

Last edited by elnina; 03-17-2018 at 05:23 PM.. Reason: discussing moderation not allowed
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2018, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Maryland
503 posts, read 140,388 times
Reputation: 1217
I haven’t watched the earlier Lawrence Krause lecture linked in this thread (will do so) but this is a highly enjoyable lecture. It’s a bit long but it moves quickly. I’ve watched it at least a half dozen times and am always awed by it. If you’re deeply religious, you might find some offhand remarks offensive. Introduction by Richard Dawkins.



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS...ature=youtu.be
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2018, 12:03 PM
 
Location: In a vehicle.
4,298 posts, read 2,596,322 times
Reputation: 6875
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhbj03 View Post
In honor of Stephen Hawking - I am wondering how could everything form in one big bang?

My understanding is this theory primarily rests on the observation that everything is moving away from us. Isn't this logic a bit too simplistic and "linear"? It's like looking at prices keep rising and predict it must be 0 at some point.

And how can everything fit into one "singularity"? We know even an atom has a certain width.

I am atheist, by the way.
Well, I have a different thought on that, but then I am not an atheist...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2018, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,601 posts, read 50,381,382 times
Reputation: 26868
It is generally accepted that the "reverse engineering" that allows us to work back to the start of expansion breaks down at a time very close to the beginning of expansion. In other words, our understanding of physics fails at that point.

I've given this example before, and it still holds: If you were born into a large cardboard box with all of the supplies you needed to survive and think, but no access to anything outside of the box, you could speculate all you wanted about what was outside but you could not scientifically prove squat. Unless you can come up with an understanding of physics that demonstrably works through the beginning of the expansion, you are speculating with ANY explanation you might offer.

As for photons, don't take the shorthand of "no mass" literally. These two articles explain:

What is the mass of a photon?

Physicists create new form of light | MIT News

... and yes, Yac will close the thread if it devolves into religion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2018, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Mendocino, CA
858 posts, read 452,634 times
Reputation: 561
Does it not bother anyone, that we simply look at everything flying away from each other and simply say we must come from one point? I would speculate more things in the universe goes in cycles rather than linearly. Why can't we easily devise a model where the universe expands and contracts and expands and contracts in an extremely long cycle, just like the seasons in one year, or the comets in a few years, or the life of stars in billions of years, or so many other things in the universe?

To say "physics as we know it cease to exist" also sounds like a lazy way out of the problem...

I have such a model: Let's say you have a air balloon that is being blown upwards by the the wind. On the way up it expands due to air pressure decreasing. Fact #1 - If you are one particle inside that balloon, you'd observe everything is moving apart from you. But then when the wind blows it down, everything reverses. Fact #2 - there is a lot of universe outside that little universe inside the balloon.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2018, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
9,556 posts, read 3,891,922 times
Reputation: 6102
There are many lines of evidence that supports the Big Bang Theory and that the Universe expanded quickly.
`
What is the evidence for the Big Bang?

The evidence for the Big Bang comes from many pieces of observational data that are consistent with the Big Bang. None of these prove the Big Bang, since scientific theories are not proven. Many of these facts are consistent with the Big Bang and some other cosmological models, but taken together these observations show that the Big Bang is the best current model for the Universe. These observations include:
  • The darkness of the night sky - Olbers' paradox.
  • The Hubble Law - the linear distance vs redshift law. The data are now very good.
  • Homogeneity - fair data showing that our location in the Universe is not special.
  • Isotropy - very strong data showing that the sky looks the same in all directions to 1 part in 100,000.
  • Time dilation in supernova light curves.

The observations listed above are consistent with the Big Bang or with the Steady State model, but many observations support the Big Bang over the Steady State:
  • Radio source and quasar counts vs. flux. These show that the Universe has evolved.
  • Existence of the blackbody CMB. This shows that the Universe has evolved from a dense, isothermal state.
  • Variation of TCMB with redshift. ***This is a direct observation of the evolution of the Universe***.
  • Deuterium, 3He, 4He, and 7Li abundances. These light isotopes are all well fit by predicted reactions occurring in the First Three Minutes.

Finally, the angular power spectrum of the CMB anisotropy that does exist at the several parts per million level is consistent with a dark matter dominated Big Bang model that went through the inflationary scenario.

Source:Frequently Asked Questions in Cosmology
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top